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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 19 Feb 20 10.19am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


There is no need for anyone to feel offended. What she said is an opinion from a particular perspective, informed by personal experience and a valuable contribution to an important subject.

Except it is merely a rehashing of hundreds of other such pieces. And before Brexit it was a Tory Government or the 2008 crash or any and everything else.

Should this lady be able to get on a bus with her kid and not expect to be verbally abused? Absolutely. Civility above all else.

But the notion that this opinion piece adds anything 'valuable' to the subject is ludicrous. It is a sound bite backed up with no actual hard evidence.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Feb 20 10.58am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The devil will indeed be in the detail, which will not become clear for a while. When I heard the headline proposals last night my first impression was much of it made sense.

However, I am not so sure that care workers have been exempted and, if not, this will become a major issue.

Nor, it seems, has tourism.

If service levels decrease in the tourism sector as a consequence then the impact will all be economic. Businesses will fail and people will be unhappy but nobody will die. We can all make our own beds in hotels, self serve in restaurants, and survive.

Not so the care sector. Starve that of support staff and we will have a genuine crisis on our hands.

It's all very well wanting to see these jobs taken up by local people, or automated, but the impracticality of actually doing so, especially in the short term, is obvious. Even if the wage levels in the care sector are dramatically improved the take up is not going to be sufficient. As improving those wage levels depends entirely on government intervention that ball rests in their hands. Without funding it won't happen.

So I agree that flexibility is the key to success and that this needs to be shown quickly to reassure some vulnerable people. The statements from the government so far seem pretty rigid and ideological rather than practical.

Apparently there is an exemption for care workers although that has not been stated in the papers I have read so needs to be clarified.

As for the Tourist sector I am not convinced that is a wait and see. As we both agree flexibility is the key and yes you are correct investment in automation and increased productivity and training won't happen overnight however employers will only act when forced to.

 


One more point

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Feb 20 11.02am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I’m all for a points system, but this is going to get amended within 6 months once low skilled worker reliant businesses start folding.

The end game is laudable but it needs to be a phased process


Agreed but how else do you make business's invest in technology and training we are way behind other countries productivity as Labour like to point out. They have known this is coming for a while now and it will still be another year before it comes into affect so plenty of time to get their house in order.

 


One more point

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View DANGERCLOSE's Profile DANGERCLOSE Flag london 19 Feb 20 11.13am Send a Private Message to DANGERCLOSE Add DANGERCLOSE as a friend

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 19 Feb 20 12.18pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11


Agreed but how else do you make business's invest in technology and training we are way behind other countries productivity as Labour like to point out. They have known this is coming for a while now and it will still be another year before it comes into affect so plenty of time to get their house in order.

So you agree or you don't agree that a phased process is better?

I have no idea where all these British workers are going to appear from. Happy to be proved wrong, but can't see it creating anything other than serious financial harm to a lot of businesses.

There is also the very real prospect of product price increases as a result of either lack of available workforce, or more expensive workforce. Fine for me, I can afford it.

That said, what I suspect will happen is less UK goods and more imports as a result when companies realise they either can't balance the books, or make their business economically viable with a significantly more expensive British workforce. Irony. Gotta love it

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 19 Feb 20 12.36pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

Constant stream of t***ter

Would rather not have to see the most irritating face in Politics via proxy.

Cheers

Edited by SW19 CPFC (19 Feb 2020 12.36pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 19 Feb 20 12.39pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

So you agree or you don't agree that a phased process is better?

I have no idea where all these British workers are going to appear from. Happy to be proved wrong, but can't see it creating anything other than serious financial harm to a lot of businesses.

There is also the very real prospect of product price increases as a result of either lack of available workforce, or more expensive workforce. Fine for me, I can afford it.

That said, what I suspect will happen is less UK goods and more imports as a result when companies realise they either can't balance the books, or make their business economically viable with a significantly more expensive British workforce. Irony. Gotta love it

You go ahead with the new restrictions but yes in some cases if the evidence is there it maybe that short term we need to loosen them for certain sectors.

However if you start that way certain business' will never adapt so I would not change anything for probably a year after the new regulations unless compelling data showed it was damaging the economy.

The people complaining the most are the companies that use cheap labour for coffee and takeaways etc. They need to prove that they have exhausted other options like putting up their salaries and training local people before I would be happy letting them off the hook.

It needs to be a flexible policy so maybe you are correct that it should be phased in but we need to see the evidence first that it is not working rather than the "Mega Expensive Coffee" company who doesn't pay UK tax complaining that it can't get enough slave labour.

 


One more point

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Feb 20 12.39pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

So you agree or you don't agree that a phased process is better?

I have no idea where all these British workers are going to appear from. Happy to be proved wrong, but can't see it creating anything other than serious financial harm to a lot of businesses.

There is also the very real prospect of product price increases as a result of either lack of available workforce, or more expensive workforce. Fine for me, I can afford it.

That said, what I suspect will happen is less UK goods and more imports as a result when companies realise they either can't balance the books, or make their business economically viable with a significantly more expensive British workforce. Irony. Gotta love it

I'm suspecting there's going to be ways to circumvent this. The tories are not going to attack big business.
I get the feeling there are enough people who will work for low wages in the UK as it is. Don't you? I believe enough people have been imported as it is. There have been hundreds of thousands of people who have moved to the UK annually. I doubt the UK has also created hundreds of thousands of jobs, homes, schools, university, college and hospital places each year too.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View DANGERCLOSE's Profile DANGERCLOSE Flag london 19 Feb 20 12.43pm Send a Private Message to DANGERCLOSE Add DANGERCLOSE as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

Constant stream of t***ter

Would rather not have to see the most irritating face in Politics via proxy.

Cheers

Edited by SW19 CPFC (19 Feb 2020 12.36pm)

I see what you did there naughty naughty.



 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 19 Feb 20 12.44pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

I see what you did there naughty naughty.


Good luck with that. House prices also rising nicely.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 19 Feb 20 1.06pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

You go ahead with the new restrictions but yes in some cases if the evidence is there it maybe that short term we need to loosen them for certain sectors.

However if you start that way certain business' will never adapt so I would not change anything for probably a year after the new regulations unless compelling data showed it was damaging the economy.

The people complaining the most are the companies that use cheap labour for coffee and takeaways etc. They need to prove that they have exhausted other options like putting up their salaries and training local people before I would be happy letting them off the hook.

It needs to be a flexible policy so maybe you are correct that it should be phased in but we need to see the evidence first that it is not working rather than the "Mega Expensive Coffee" company who doesn't pay UK tax complaining that it can't get enough slave labour.

Oh contrare

The issue is simply that British workers aren't interested. One cafe chain has recently come out and said around 1 in 50 applicants are British.

That's an issue.

It's also not slave labour for those companies – they legally have to pay minimum wage.

There are of course farms and food produce employers who are shirking the system and literally treating people like slaves, but they are not the majority – so again, workers will be on minimum wage. Maybe not full time, zero hours or part time probably but still when working, paid minimum wage.

The truth is there simply isn't the appetite to fill the roles.

People need to wake up and realise that we are no longer a labour based / manufacturing economy. We've been transitioning towards a service economy for decades.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 19 Feb 20 1.08pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Oh contrare

The issue is simply that British workers aren't interested. One cafe chain has recently come out and said around 1 in 50 applicants are British.

That's an issue.

It's also not slave labour for those companies – they legally have to pay minimum wage.

There are of course farms and food produce employers who are shirking the system and literally treating people like slaves, but they are not the majority – so again, workers will be on minimum wage. Maybe not full time, zero hours or part time probably but still when working, paid minimum wage.

The truth is there simply isn't the appetite to fill the roles.

People need to wake up and realise that we are no longer a labour based / manufacturing economy. We've been transitioning towards a service economy for decades.

So explain how these jobs were filled before mass immigration?

The reality is that the workforce adapts to the environment just as business do.

Your suggestion that the British won't work low paid jobs just completely ignores the fact that most of them know they won't even get them.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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