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April 24 2024 6.41am

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Feb 20 6.17pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

Most care staff come from outside the EU ie somalia,philippines ect so your talking hogwash

Not in my own experience but I don't know the national statistics.

It has been incredibly difficult for those outside the UK to get visas for low paid jobs to the point of being almost impossible. For EU workers no issue. Blocking their entry is going to produce huge problems unless I am missing something.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 19 Feb 20 6.24pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

Except it is merely a rehashing of hundreds of other such pieces. And before Brexit it was a Tory Government or the 2008 crash or any and everything else.

Should this lady be able to get on a bus with her kid and not expect to be verbally abused? Absolutely. Civility above all else.

But the notion that this opinion piece adds anything 'valuable' to the subject is ludicrous. It is a sound bite backed up with no actual hard evidence.

It is valuable in that what it suggests is that Brexit is just a symptom of an underlying problem.

She is talking about her values being challenged. Values she came to rely on and took for granted would always be part of the UK.

It's not unlike the situation in the USA with Trump, a man who encapsulates for some the very essence of immorality. Indeed appears to not know what morality means. For others he is a Saint.

This divide is huge and Brexit being "done" isn't going to cure it despite the leavers wanting those who disagree to accept they have "won" and to "suck it up". In fact those attitudes demonstrate part of the whole problem.

 


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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 19 Feb 20 6.50pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course I don't believe it.

What I believe is that as there are more "white" people in the UK than those of "colour" there are likely therefore to be more "white" racists, and that those of "colour" more likely to suffer from racism than create it, as a consequence.

absolute bulls***!!

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 19 Feb 20 6.52pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend


Those of colour?? WTF? Do you mean black/asian? Well say so then, stop being so f***ing PC...they re black, they call them selves black.....so wtf is those of colour??

Edited by the silurian (19 Feb 2020 6.53pm)

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 20 Feb 20 8.11am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

As I said the other day about the new immigration rules the devil is in the detail.

Andrew Green of Migration Watch's take. It appears there are a few loopholes which no doubt will be exploited so not all rainbows and unicorns, not a disaster either.

[Link]

 


One more point

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W12 20 Feb 20 8.25am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course I don't believe it.

What I believe is that as there are more "white" people in the UK than those of "colour" there are likely therefore to be more "white" racists, and that those of "colour" more likely to suffer from racism than create it, as a consequence.

Who cares what you "believe" and what has that got to do with the real world?

It's now fairly well established that white people have a weaker in group preference than other groups and white liberals like yourself actually significantly prefer other races/groups than their own.

[Link]

Until anyone can produce detailed statistics on racially motivated crimes by the ethnicity of the perpetrator I simply don't believe there is more racism in this country by white people. There is no evidence to suggest this and the fact that these statistics now seem to be hidden (or are not collected) suggests some truth is being hidden. What we have now is a situation where a black person is invited to write an article, walk into a telivision studio, stand up on a stage or stand up in parliament and be openly racist towards white people without any signifiant push back and cheered on by many whites. The opposite scenario is clearly unthinkable.


 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Feb 20 9.43am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Who cares what you "believe" and what has that got to do with the real world?

I don't care that you don't care! What matters is whether it is true, or not. The real world includes a whole host of opinions alongside those you hold. Including mine.


It's now fairly well established that white people have a weaker in group preference than other groups and white liberals like yourself actually significantly prefer other races/groups than their own.

[Link]

You classify me as "white", without evidence. I just see myself as a person and try to treat everyone the same. I judge people on how they behave and not by anything arbitrary. I certainly prefer people who don't demonstrate racist tendencies.

Until anyone can produce detailed statistics on racially motivated crimes by the ethnicity of the perpetrator I simply don't believe there is more racism in this country by white people. There is no evidence to suggest this and the fact that these statistics now seem to be hidden (or are not collected) suggests some truth is being hidden. What we have now is a situation where a black person is invited to write an article, walk into a telivision studio, stand up on a stage or stand up in parliament and be openly racist towards white people without any signifiant push back and cheered on by many whites. The opposite scenario is clearly unthinkable.


That's cherry picking symptoms and seeking to cure the disease by what you have chosen to see without discovering it's actual cause. It's like rubbing antiseptic on a bump on the head when the real cause is a brain tumour.

 


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W12 20 Feb 20 10.14am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's cherry picking symptoms and seeking to cure the disease by what you have chosen to see without discovering it's actual cause. It's like rubbing antiseptic on a bump on the head when the real cause is a brain tumour.

How is that cherry picking other than the fact I haven't personally asked everyone in the country (obviously under oath)?

Are you not white then becuase the white guilt is oozing from you?

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 20 Feb 20 10.20am Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


This divide is huge and Brexit being "done" isn't going to cure it despite the leavers wanting those who disagree to accept they have "won" and to "suck it up". In fact those attitudes demonstrate part of the whole problem.

But divides always exist. That is the point of having a democratic system. Different ideas are proposed within an accepted electoral framework, people cast their votes and a winner emerges.

And up until 2016, this was how the over-whelming majority of people not only thought but fully accepted.

We voted on June 23rd and a majority decision was reached that the UK leave the EU. It should have been done and dusted. Yet there then followed a disgusting (and I make zero apologies for using that emotive word) campaign to effectively have that decision over-turned before it could be implemented. Absolutely ripping up the previous, and what I considered absolute, convention that votes had to be counted and then respected.

That is the primary cause of the division. That wound, that attempt to scupper the decision of the 52%, that is what has damaged our society.

Now I get that this has to be healed but I have seen virtually no apologies from those who attempted to usurp the very basic core concept of universal suffrage that lays at the heart of our notion of what democracy is meant to mean, a concept that we are told lives have been sacrificed to protect. I admit to struggling to have conversations much beyond the basic level of civility with people who campaigned to have my vote on June 23rd rendered null and void and acknowledge that perhaps I do need to be a little bit more forgiving but what is coming from your side of the divide? Very little from what I can make out.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Feb 20 11.13am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

How is that cherry picking other than the fact I haven't personally asked everyone in the country (obviously under oath)?

Are you not white then becuase the white guilt is oozing from you?

Because you are selecting the evidence you want to present of the way "black" entertainers/politicians behave and presenting it at face value when it cannot be. There is a background and a history which requires everything to be seen in it's context before racism can really be understood and tackled.

No I am not white. I am a British human being with diverse ethnic roots.

 


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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Feb 20 11.31am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

But divides always exist. That is the point of having a democratic system. Different ideas are proposed within an accepted electoral framework, people cast their votes and a winner emerges.

Not as big as this divide. This is on a whole different scale.

And up until 2016, this was how the over-whelming majority of people not only thought but fully accepted.

Traditional political divides have been cast aside. Brexit is but a symptom of this and not the cause.

We voted on June 23rd and a majority decision was reached that the UK leave the EU. It should have been done and dusted. Yet there then followed a disgusting (and I make zero apologies for using that emotive word) campaign to effectively have that decision over-turned before it could be implemented. Absolutely ripping up the previous, and what I considered absolute, convention that votes had to be counted and then respected.

BS. A small majority was shown up in a flawed, compromised, undemocratic referendum that our elected Parliament disagreed with but failed to do it's duty and overturn. The ONLY convention that matters is that Parliament is supreme.

That is the primary cause of the division. That wound, that attempt to scupper the decision of the 52%, that is what has damaged our society.

More BS. What this has shown is that the primary cause of the division is that our system of democracy has failed because it is not truly democratic. FPTP has failed and we need to switch to PR so that the people's real opinions can all be counted and matter. We need all strands of opinion to have a voice in Parliament and for compromise to be the natural state of affairs. No "winning" or "losing" concepts any more. That's what causes division and conflict.

Now I get that this has to be healed but I have seen virtually no apologies from those who attempted to usurp the very basic core concept of universal suffrage that lays at the heart of our notion of what democracy is meant to mean, a concept that we are told lives have been sacrificed to protect. I admit to struggling to have conversations much beyond the basic level of civility with people who campaigned to have my vote on June 23rd rendered null and void and acknowledge that perhaps I do need to be a little bit more forgiving but what is coming from your side of the divide? Very little from what I can make out.

You completely miss the point. No one wants your vote null and voided. What is demanded is simply that the votes of the true majority must matter more than any individual or group. If we go on returning governments elected by a minority then the divide will not be healed. FPTP is the problem along with allowing important complex single issue questions to be answered by plebiscite.

 


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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Feb 20 11.43am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

You have a total misunderstanding of PR. The last Irish government had 28% of the vote - and that was more than the previous one.
The deal was done with the major opposition party so that business could continue. What the people got was more of the same.
Boris at well over 40% is the biggest party vote by some distance. Are you refuting that now? A bit like the way an open referendum went one way but you can't agree? I'm presuming you didn't do that well in maths O level.
However, I would like to see some kind of PR give people like the Liberals and the Greens a few more seats. Not because I like them - I don't. But because there is little return for a lot of votes in the Westminster model. Genuinely takes a lot more nuanced thought than scrapping FPTP.
Perhaps scrap the Lords and have a PR House there to start with. A senate or such like.

Edited by ASCPFC (20 Feb 2020 11.44am)

 


Red and Blue Army!

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