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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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steve1984 07 Feb 19 1.12pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm fairly confident that no one expected Brexit to win and it is also rather difficult to plan for the unknown.
There are no experts and the whole process has been one bit of brinksmanship after another.

What exactly was unknown about these two facts? I'm no expert but both these facts are tangible realities.

1. Brexit necessitates a border with the EU.
2. The GFA necessitates no border with the EU.

One of them has to go.

Edited by steve1984 (07 Feb 2019 1.13pm)

 

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View Rubin's Profile Rubin Flag 07 Feb 19 1.18pm Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

It is inevitable, and therefore I'd rather not waste my time working against it. I'd rather work with it and prepare for it, get ahead if you will. That will be far more beneficial than getting any temporary, misguided sense of satisfaction or 'at least I did my bit' from throwing an acorn at a charging elephant and subsequently being trampled.

Again, on this specific topic, I just don't see the logic in trying to change something you have no control over. Your energy would be much better spent elsewhere. I do see the logic if you've become indoctrinated into thinking you can actually make a difference. Or if you are successfully attempting to create an organised, coherent global movement/revolt against the system.

I've got zero faith in democracy.

However, this is a one off chance (thanks to the incorrect and unexpected result of the referendum) to expose the 'permanent government' to the masses, for what it is, and wake people up to it. Letting them off the hook by just letting them do a bodge job is not an option.

On the first bit, where I believe it is heading, there won't be any such thing as 'working with it', unless you're happy to work with your own enslavement and no kind of say so in anything. You never know what's just around the corner. In order to work with it, you'll probably need to be one of the 0.1%.

 

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View Dannyh.V2's Profile Dannyh.V2 Flag Stone lickers 07 Feb 19 1.29pm Send a Private Message to Dannyh.V2 Add Dannyh.V2 as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Don't take this personally, but here's my rebuttal to your own personnel assumptions.

People, mainly leavers, are massively overestimating how much influence we have and therefore how much impact leaving will have on the EU. That will play out over time, and it won't be in the direction they want it to go.

As previously stated that is your opinion based on what exactly ? Having watched various different news media, it has come to light that the German car manufacturers, French, Italian, and Spanish, winemakers are very concerned about us leaving and what tariffs we will place on goods from Europe as opposed to Car Makers like Ford, and vauxhall who have their bases in the USA.

Then we have the alcohol and cheese markets from Europe who quite Frankly would collapse on thier collective arse if we left with a no deal and spanked a massive tariff on thier produce to promote goods from the Commonwealth and beyond. The owner of Witherspoons has already stopped stocking his pubs with alcohol from the EU, and shock horror no one gives a shyte prices have not gone up, quality has not been affected no has his trade.

The only way to stop Globalism is to create immediate economic harm by reversing the current trade model (will never happen) and ban technology (also will never happen). So you're perfectly entitled, although perhaps a little deluded, to think leaving will be a step in the right direction. It will make no difference. You're focusing on the wrong issue.

If your so sure it will make no difference why is the rest of Europe holding thier breath to see what happens, not to mention the likes of the Eu council President (un-elected president I might add) saying that Brexiteers will go to hell, sounds like a desperate man to me, as he knows if we leave the whole fiasco comes crashing down.

No body actually knows what will happen if we leave with a no deal, but we can say for certain, we won't be paying a 39 billion divorce bill. We will be in control of our own borders, laws, and fishing grounds, so surely that's better for the country, so what if the odd bank leaves, it was those f***ers that brought the country, nearly the world, to its knees in the first place. Sure it may take a while to regain a place as a nation that produces good's through industry, instead of being a "banking capital" but I can live with that, as the only other option (staying in Europe) will see us slowly but surely come under a European dictatorship ran by un elected toss pots driven by some shared narcissistic view of a European Super State.

The Experiment has failed lets move on.

The elephant in the room is automation and technology which are ultimately the main drivers of globalism. Brexit, Gilets Jaunes and populism are nothing but distractions and false dawns – illusions of choice and purpose. When you have no job, and your only source of income is from the state, you have no agency and then it will finally become clear that you have no say in the matter.

I think someones being watching the matrix to to much, calm down Neo.


By all means believe that you're creating a chance for change, or applying the brakes, go ahead, but it's a fantasy.


Which again is your opinion nothing more, which you are just as entitled to have, as I am to wholly disregard it as the ramblings of a socialist.

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 07 Feb 19 1.54pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Rubin

I've got zero faith in democracy.

However, this is a one off chance (thanks to the incorrect and unexpected result of the referendum) to expose the 'permanent government' to the masses, for what it is, and wake people up to it. Letting them off the hook by just letting them do a bodge job is not an option.

On the first bit, where I believe it is heading, there won't be any such thing as 'working with it', unless you're happy to work with your own enslavement and no kind of say so in anything. You never know what's just around the corner. In order to work with it, you'll probably need to be one of the 0.1%.

My eyes have just readjusted after all that use of bold, terrible spelling and short term thinking. At least they were open though.

Anyway...

You can work with it in ways that will be of personal benefit. Change job. Retrain into an industry that won't be dead in 20 years time. Try not to become bitter and twisted. Invest money accordingly. Relocate. I don't for one minute think that 'working with it' means helping to definitively shape it. That would run counter to my previous point.

Enslavement is relative, you're enslaved now unless you're extremely wealthy. I don't see the difference. Most people have very little say in anything now anyway. Has been the same for centuries.

'You never know what's just around the corner' – come on. That's meaningless. I like to think I progress based on probability and facts.

Alternatively if you keep thinking you'll be able to turn back the clock or that voting either remain or leave makes any difference to the long term outcome I'm afraid the only one running out of time will be you.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 07 Feb 19 2.06pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Good Post !!

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 07 Feb 19 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

No, wrong end of the stick (again)

It's the orchestrators, not the voters, that's who Tusk was referring to

What has my personal situation got to do with anything? If you must know I have a house in Warlingham, a mortgage, my daughter still lives there. I'm expat plus I now have to register as a foreigner and which costs me money rather than be a European citizen. From my own point of view I see so many disadvantages but not 1 benefit, maybe cos I don't buy into bulls*** slogans like free from the shackles

Tusk didn't call Brexiteers shysters...you did, correct?

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 19 2.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

It is inevitable, and therefore I'd rather not waste my time working against it. I'd rather work with it and prepare for it, get ahead if you will. That will be far more beneficial than getting any temporary, misguided sense of satisfaction or 'at least I did my bit' from throwing an acorn at a charging elephant and subsequently being trampled.

Again, on this specific topic, I just don't see the logic in trying to change something you have no control over. Your energy would be much better spent elsewhere. I do see the logic if you've become indoctrinated into thinking you can actually make a difference. Or if you are successfully attempting to create an organised, coherent global movement/revolt against the system.

There is sense in this approach in terms of the individualistic need to increase your personal chances of success within any governing system.

However, all movements that ever changed anything all started small and if everyone decided to be drone like nothing would ever change.

However, has anyone on here suggested anything other than criticism? So are you suggesting that working within a system extends to no longer even criticising it?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 19 2.20pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

A successful Brexit
Should already be clear this isn't going to happen.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (07 Feb 2019 11.26am)

That's subjective.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Rubin's Profile Rubin Flag 07 Feb 19 2.21pm Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

My eyes have just readjusted after all that use of bold, terrible spelling and short term thinking. At least they were open though.

Anyway...

You can work with it in ways that will be of personal benefit. Change job. Retrain into an industry that won't be dead in 20 years time. Try not to become bitter and twisted. Invest money accordingly. Relocate. I don't for one minute think that 'working with it' means helping to definitively shape it. That would run counter to my previous point.

Enslavement is relative, you're enslaved now unless you're extremely wealthy. I don't see the difference. Most people have very little say in anything now anyway. Has been the same for centuries.

'You never know what's just around the corner' – come on. That's meaningless. I like to think I progress based on probability and facts.

Alternatively if you keep thinking you'll be able to turn back the clock or that voting either remain or leave makes any difference to the long term outcome I'm afraid the only one running out of time will be you.

Adapting to a new jobs market doesn't mean you need to accept loss of sovereignty. The two don't need to go hand in hand, and I don't see them that way, which you appear to be doing. You can do the former without accepting the latter.

I agree that 'you never know what's around the corner' was pretty meaningless, but from where the EU started to where it is now, even the amount it's 'progressed' since the referendum is frightening.

When enough people realise that they have the power, and not the tiny percentage of people that currently control us, things could change quickly. All it needs is enough people to wake up to it. This could only been done through withdrawal of taxes by the self employed.

The French situation is interesting. It seems to be both sides of the polotical spectrum participating, and it's showing no signs of slowing down.

Edited by Rubin (07 Feb 2019 2.23pm)

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 19 2.22pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Fair. I'm packaging both up because the two are interlinked. One is a catalyst for the other. Globalism is an outcome of Globalisation, and it is inevitable. We're way past the point of no return.

This is why I find the delusional premium being placed on Brexit as a solve all short sighted and a bit ridiculous. For that reason aside from the short term side effects I'm not really that bothered whether we remain or leave because in the long term we'll end up in the same place regardless.

No globalism is a political choice.

Japan for example..is also a sea trading nation and set of islands and has a higher GDP than us plus standard of living yet has rejected the kind of globalism that would end up replacing the biological Japanese outside of some cultural construct.

Automation and other technologies will solve their aging issues and they will still exist as Japanese.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2019 2.26pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 07 Feb 19 2.32pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No globalism is a political choice.

Japan for example..is also a sea trading nation and set of islands and has a higher GDP than us plus standard of living yet has rejected the kind of globalism that would end up replacing the biological Japanese outside of some cultural construct.

Automation and other technologies will solve their aging issues and they will still exist as Japanese.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2019 2.26pm)

Funny how we were all told over previous generations that having too many children was bad and immoral for the planet but now we are told we have to import masses of people as we don't have enough children. One of the biggest scams of all time.

Edited by W12 (07 Feb 2019 2.32pm)

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 07 Feb 19 2.37pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

There is sense in this approach in terms of the individualistic need to increase your personal chances of success within any governing system.

However, all movements that ever changed anything all started small and if everyone decided to be drone like nothing would ever change.

However, has anyone on here suggested anything other than criticism? So are you suggesting that working within a system extends to no longer even criticising it?

Valid points.

I'm not advocating for blanket compliance. I'm saying in this particular instance, it's pointless. It's too big, and too far along. Direct efforts elsewhere.

I'm also not suggesting criticism is to be somehow censored or abandoned. I'm just saying that in this particular instance it won't make a blind bit of difference to the long term outcome, so why waste time on it. Also plenty of people are doing more than just criticising if they voted – that's a conscious attempt to enact change.

You can still criticise but also understand that said criticism won't actually lead anywhere. There's no contradiction in that. However a lot of people on this forum clearly hold emotive beliefs rather than mere criticisms, and that's where it gets silly.

The more this rumbles on, the more I view it as a distraction to the bigger picture issues, and really, it's playing nicely into the hands of the people you profess to despise. It gives them an excuse to speed up the train.

My personal take is that if you see this as a movement, and by movement I mean a coordinated, effective effort to change the current direction of travel, you've got rose tinted glasses on. It's like people have been waiting their whole lives for this, so to be told it's not actually going to lead anywhere is simply too much. It's almost religious levels of blind faith. And that goes for both sides.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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