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Pussay Patrol Flag 07 Feb 19 3.04pm

Originally posted by pefwin

That was the problem with Gordon Brown's financial model, it was not a closed system and required more and more workers to sustain government handouts like teachers gold plated pension costs; which increased dramatically during his tenure as chancellor.


What we need is a good old lethal epidemic.


Brown was spot on about one thing though. That our EU membership should only be decided by politicians and not the electorate

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Rubin's Profile Rubin Flag 07 Feb 19 3.05pm Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC


I disagree. Globalisation naturally opens the door to Globalism. The two are linked. To what degree is another matter, but they are linked. If they weren't then we would not be having this discussion.

There is a massive difference between realising and organising. In fact I'd say it's nothing short of impossible. Not to mention most people are pretty ignorant and happy just to muddle along in life. So long as those people are always placated there will be no revolution. It would require a monumental act of stupidity for the people in power to do that.

It's also transferrable, this notion of 'the man'. Revolution wins, new man in charge. No difference, apart from perhaps a brief, fleeting promise of change that gets extinguished pretty quickly once the usual power and money start eroding any values and ethics. See Arab spring. Ad infinitum.

Globalisation is an inevitable result of increased technology. Suitable transportation methods to ship goods around the world, communication methods to provide services worldwide, the need for materials forr products which are only found in certain locations, and the obvious cheap labour for producing said goods.

Globalism is the result of power hungry, unelected people, who have a psychopathic desire to control people and the world.

They're not both needed in order for the other to function.

Again, I agree that solving it and living in a utopia is next to impossible, but if things (globalism, not globalisation) are allowed to carry on progressing the way they are, there will never be any way of reeling it back.

Having complete sovereignty in a country at least gives the chance for 'the people' to decide what happens, whereas when you're under the EU, it's the unelected commissioners who dictate what happens.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 07 Feb 19 3.10pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

Brown was spot on about one thing though. That our EU membership should only be decided by politicians and not the electorate

More of your absolute rubbish. According to you our exit from the EU should only be decided by the very same politicians that have well and truly f***ed up our leaving

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 19 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'd say that whether you're leave or remain, I think you'd be hard pressed to call this a successful Brexit, defined by the terms of the referendum. I'd be interested to hear how it could be though.


Well it hasn't even begun yet and obviously the opponents are doing their worse. Brexit would need a good decade of passing before some kind of well rounded summary could be made.

Nations than gain independence rarely give it back up (though demographic change may ultimately change this in our case) perhaps, in part, this recognition is why the internationalists are fighting so hard to stop the initial Brexit.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 07 Feb 19 3.18pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Rubin

Globalisation is an inevitable result of increased technology. Suitable transportation methods to ship goods around the world, communication methods to provide services worldwide, the need for materials forr products which are only found in certain locations, and the obvious cheap labour for producing said goods.

Globalism is the result of power hungry, unelected people, who have a psychopathic desire to control people and the world.

They're not both needed in order for the other to function.

Again, I agree that solving it and living in a utopia is next to impossible, but if things (globalism, not globalisation) are allowed to carry on progressing the way they are, there will never be any way of reeling it back.

Having complete sovereignty in a country at least gives the chance for 'the people' to decide what happens, whereas when you're under the EU, it's the unelected commissioners who dictate what happens.

See this is where I disagree.

They're not both needed in order for the other to function.
They're not needed by each other no, but I can't see a situation in todays world where introducing one of them would not then immediately lead to the other. It all starts with trade, and ends with homogenisation. Mainly due to borders and self interest restricting profits and progression, now more than ever with global tech multinationals that love simplicity and less rules and regulation. And who do they pay to gain influence? Inevitable.

Globalism is the result of power hungry, unelected people, who have a psychopathic desire to control people and the world.
Are you saying the world doesn't need control? And if not, how exactly is it possible to have control without the former. Even Socialists and Communists probably recognise this is impossible.

There will never be any way of reeling it back.
Already too late. Which is my consistent point.

Having complete sovereignty in a country
Not sure this has existed for a long time. Money buys influence, influence buys laws, policy and direction of travel. We've existed under the illusion of sovereignty for eons. It's just that the EU model makes it more explicit and less hidden.

Following on from that 'Having complete sovereignty in a country at least gives the chance for 'the people''
Chance yes. Possibility of causing a bit of discomfort? Maybe. Real chance of making any difference? No. Not now. I admire your belief in the power of 'the people', whatever that means, but it's a fanciful ideal.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 07 Feb 19 3.23pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Well it hasn't even begun yet and obviously the opponents are doing their worse. Brexit would need a good decade of passing before some kind of well rounded summary could be made.

Nations than gain independence rarely give it back up (though demographic change may ultimately change this in our case) perhaps, in part, this recognition is why the internationalists are fighting so hard to stop the initial Brexit.

Fair. But surely whatever happens now this is not what you would have classed as a 'Successful Brexit'. It's clear that whatever type of Brexit you thought you were getting is going to be compromised in some way. I don't think that can be classed as successful.

Also regarding the gain independence/give back up point – Sorry this goes over ground covered in the last post but I really don't think this will be relevant in future anyway. So really all it creates is a title with no substance. In, out, doesn't matter. Temporary feel good factor. Of course it also depends what you class as 'Independence'.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Pussay Patrol Flag 07 Feb 19 3.24pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

More of your absolute rubbish. According to you our exit from the EU should only be decided by the very same politicians that have well and truly f***ed up our leaving

The lesser of two evils then

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 07 Feb 19 3.30pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I'd say that whether you're leave or remain, I think you'd be hard pressed to call this a successful Brexit, defined by the terms of the referendum. I'd be interested to hear how it could be though.

It was never designed to accommodate leaving, the nature of the federation makes withdrawl complex - the process has been poorly managed, but I for one will be heartily glad to see the back of something we did not vote for in 1975.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 07 Feb 19 3.30pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Fair. But surely whatever happens now this is not what you would have classed as a 'Successful Brexit'. It's clear that whatever type of Brexit you thought you were getting is going to be compromised in some way. I don't think that can be classed as successful.

Also regarding the gain independence/give back up point – Sorry this goes over ground covered in the last post but I really don't think this will be relevant in future anyway. So really all it creates is a title with no substance. In, out, doesn't matter. Temporary feel good factor. Of course it also depends what you class as 'Independence'.


In your way you are even more cynical than I am.

Temporary feel good factor? Maybe....The Brexit situation could ultimately end up like a Jacobite rebellion.....an uprising far too late in the day to ultimately win out.

But what's better? To rage against the dying of the light or just meekly accept it and busy yourself tidying your room while the digger outside destroys the house.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 07 Feb 19 3.32pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

The lesser of two evils then

It is the future of the younger generation that is the most important thing.

That can never be left to our entitlement generation.

Have you ever heard any brexiteer speak of anything other than what they want?

There ought to be a new vote with the young from 16 voting and the elderly 55+ not, then the young can decide the older one's futures for a change.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 07 Feb 19 3.43pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

It is the future of the younger generation that is the most important thing.

That can never be left to our entitlement generation.

Have you ever heard any brexiteer speak of anything other than what they want?

There ought to be a new vote with the young from 16 voting and the elderly 55+ not, then the young can decide the older one's futures for a change.

Unfortunately for you that is not how democracy works. What would you do if the result was the same? Accept it? I don't think so

 

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 07 Feb 19 3.58pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


In your way you are even more cynical than I am.

Temporary feel good factor? Maybe....The Brexit situation could ultimately end up like a Jacobite rebellion.....an uprising far too late in the day to ultimately win out.

But what's better? To rage against the dying of the light or just meekly accept it and busy yourself tidying your room while the digger outside destroys the house.

Perhaps. Not sure if it's being cynical or realistic. Maybe a combination of both.

I think to give Brexit that much weight is generous, but I agree that it is way too late.

On the last point... That is of course subjective – others would view the digger to be building the house rather than destroying it. Either way it's all gravy as it will happen regardless.

Also raging against the dying of the light implies doing more than just shouting and throwing sand. It requires actual, tangible and effective action. If people believed in this narrative that strongly they'd forgo their own personal situation in favour of what they view as the greater good. And by that I mean more than just putting a bit of paper in a box.

I don't see that happening any time soon. As badly as people say they have it, they're comfortable enough not to risk their own situations. And that's right where 'they' want you to be. And they'll keep you there.

I'd rather try to play the system, create and pass on some equity through either some limited or some significant success than attempt to organise a mass rebellion the likes of which the world has never and may never see. Too much hard work. I think a lot of people share my viewpoint. Angry in private, complicit in reality. But at least I can admit that...

Edited by SW19 CPFC (07 Feb 2019 3.59pm)

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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