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December 9 2019 6.21pm

The Brexit Thread

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View Sportyteacher's Profile Sportyteacher Flag London 13 Aug 19 9.52pm Send a Private Message to Sportyteacher Add Sportyteacher as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

Anyone else thinking that Daily Telegraph is one obliging media vehicle for Dominic Cummings to funnel through his misinformation and twisted bile? I bet that opinion poll is complete fabrication.[/quote]

Of course opinion polls in the Remain backing media aren't fabricated are they? ^o)

I wouldn't give ANY opinion poll the time of day given the headlines received for what is usually such a small, insignificant sample. They are all too frequently created to both promote and inflate the agenda tied to the source of the poll. The fact that so many readers swallow; accept and have their voting behaviour influenced by the resulting headlines is astonishing..

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 13 Aug 19 10.33pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

I wouldn't give ANY opinion poll the time of day given the headlines received for what is usually such a small, insignificant sample. They are all too frequently created to both promote and inflate the agenda tied to the source of the poll. The fact that so many readers swallow; accept and have their voting behaviour influenced by the resulting headlines is astonishing..

And yet you felt obliged to post this example. I do tend to agree with you on polls though. They were almost completely wrong about Trump at the last election & not by a percentage point or three

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Aug 19 10.34pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Yes, negotiations were sabotaged by a bunch of remainers in government intent on staying in the EU if not via some form of BRINO treaty then actually revoking A50. The EU originally offered us a free trade deal (twice I believe).

The negotiation should have gone like this:

1. Day 1 - The UK sets a date for departure
2. Day 2 - The UK puts in place a comprehensive plan for a WTO exit
3. Day 3 - The UK offers the EU reasonable terms on a free trade deal (rather than going cap in hand to Brussels)
4. Day x - The UK leaves the EU with or without a trade deal

What do we have now?

[Link]

Basically remainers leave us no choice but to leave on WTO terms.

I could only read the first paragraph but it's enough. it's bs just as your post is.

Day 1 was done.

Day 2 isn't realistic. A WTO exit either happens or not. the terms are fixed and contingency plans are just the sticking plasters over the wounds.

Day 3 is not the way negotiations are done when you have nothing but scraps in your begging bowl. Those that think we hold the cards are deluding themselves.

Day x is what is probably going to happen at sometime but if we apply some proper diplomacy, rather than the pretence that everything will be alright on the night, then we might just be able to find some workable compromises that ensure we end up with the least worse solution. Any Brexit will be bad but a no deal is just a stupid and totally avoidable failure.

 

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 14 Aug 19 7.26am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


Day 3 is not the way negotiations are done when you have nothing but scraps in your begging bowl. Those that think we hold the cards are deluding themselves.


And you're the expert I assume.

The delusions are with the lily livered remoaners that think we couldn't survive on our own


 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 14 Aug 19 9.01am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

And you're the expert I assume.

The delusions are with the lily livered remoaners that think we couldn't survive on our own

Indeed, the idea that we are somehow the poor cousin of the EU 28 and have no negotiating leverage is just ridiculous and one of the biggest falsehoods pushed by remain. We put in twice as much as Spain takes out FFS. How the hell are the EU supposed to fill that gap?

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Aug 19 10.57am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

And you're the expert I assume.

The delusions are with the lily livered remoaners that think we couldn't survive on our own


I am no more an expert than anyone else who is not a specialist.

What I do though is listen to those who are experts and not just optimistic bullsh*tters, or those who throw around insults like confetti in the hope that that helps their arguments. As soon as terms like "remoaner" enter the debate I realise that straws are being reached for.

It's not a question of whether we can "survive on our own". Of course we can. We could survive on baked beans and Budweiser but I wouldn't want to. It's a question of how we survive and what the future will be for our children and grandchildren. It's a question of our place in the world and how best to play it.

It amazes me that people seem to think that just because we make significant contributions to the EU, so have "negotiating leverage", that they must all roll over and accede to our demands. Of course if we leave without a deal it would hurt them too, as our economy and imports from them would shrink, so they want to avoid it, but they cannot do so on terms which would hurt them even more.

I think leaving is crazy but I think leaving without a proper arrangement for our future relationship, a "deal", is beyond crazy. It's the irresponsible narcissism of a group determined to prove a point and not of those who seek the best outcome for us all.

Philip Hammond got it right in his statement. A no deal Brexit would be a betrayal of the 2016 referendum result. The leave campaign promised that a new arrangement would be easily obtained and no-one should fear Brexit. No-one voted for, or even contemplated, leaving without one so if it is attempted Parliament has to intervene and stop it. That is their duty.

 

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Online Flag hove actually 14 Aug 19 11.08am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am no more an expert than anyone else who is not a specialist.

What I do though is listen to those who are experts and not just optimistic bullsh*tters, or those who throw around insults like confetti in the hope that that helps their arguments. As soon as terms like "remoaner" enter the debate I realise that straws are being reached for.

It's not a question of whether we can "survive on our own". Of course we can. We could survive on baked beans and Budweiser but I wouldn't want to. It's a question of how we survive and what the future will be for our children and grandchildren. It's a question of our place in the world and how best to play it.

It amazes me that people seem to think that just because we make significant contributions to the EU, so have "negotiating leverage", that they must all roll over and accede to our demands. Of course if we leave without a deal it would hurt them too, as our economy and imports from them would shrink, so they want to avoid it, but they cannot do so on terms which would hurt them even more.

I think leaving is crazy but I think leaving without a proper arrangement for our future relationship, a "deal", is beyond crazy. It's the irresponsible narcissism of a group determined to prove a point and not of those who seek the best outcome for us all.

Philip Hammond got it right in his statement. A no deal Brexit would be a betrayal of the 2016 referendum result. The leave campaign promised that a new arrangement would be easily obtained and no-one should fear Brexit. No-one voted for, or even contemplated, leaving without one so if it is attempted Parliament has to intervene and stop it. That is their duty.

Again, Article 50, not prescriptive about deal or deal and passed by MPs by a large majority.

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 14 Aug 19 11.13am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am no more an expert than anyone else who is not a specialist.

What I do though is listen to those who are experts and not just optimistic bullsh*tters, or those who throw around insults like confetti in the hope that that helps their arguments. As soon as terms like "remoaner" enter the debate I realise that straws are being reached for.

It's not a question of whether we can "survive on our own". Of course we can. We could survive on baked beans and Budweiser but I wouldn't want to. It's a question of how we survive and what the future will be for our children and grandchildren. It's a question of our place in the world and how best to play it.

It amazes me that people seem to think that just because we make significant contributions to the EU, so have "negotiating leverage", that they must all roll over and accede to our demands. Of course if we leave without a deal it would hurt them too, as our economy and imports from them would shrink, so they want to avoid it, but they cannot do so on terms which would hurt them even more.

I think leaving is crazy but I think leaving without a proper arrangement for our future relationship, a "deal", is beyond crazy. It's the irresponsible narcissism of a group determined to prove a point and not of those who seek the best outcome for us all.

Philip Hammond got it right in his statement. A no deal Brexit would be a betrayal of the 2016 referendum result. The leave campaign promised that a new arrangement would be easily obtained and no-one should fear Brexit. No-one voted for, or even contemplated, leaving without one so if it is attempted Parliament has to intervene and stop it. That is their duty.

Do you mean the experts that agree with you or the experts that don't?

Why do you think leaving without signing a punitive treaty is "beyond crazy"? Do you know what is in the current withdrawal agreement with or without the backstop?

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Aug 19 11.17am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

Again, Article 50, not prescriptive about deal or deal and passed by MPs by a large majority.

Again, Parliament can revoke after changing it's mind because of events. It passed because a deal was expected. It could be revoked if that is not offered.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Aug 19 11.23am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Do you mean the experts that agree with you or the experts that don't?

Why do you think leaving without signing a punitive treaty is "beyond crazy"? Do you know what is in the current withdrawal agreement with or without the backstop?

I have not heard any genuine expert in favour of an exit without a deal. The only ones in favour are politicians, most of whom admit making a deal is desirable but only on their terms.

There is no withdrawal agreement without the backstop. It comes as a package. I recognise the difficulties this causes over concerns about how this could impact the status of NI but sometimes compromise and trust are needed to move things forward. If that trust were to be broken then we would always have the power in our own Parliament to revisit the situation. We remain a sovereign state despite all the claims to the contrary.

 

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View davidpercival's Profile davidpercival Flag Croydon 14 Aug 19 11.24am Send a Private Message to davidpercival Add davidpercival as a friend

I don't like to disagree with an American about American politics but surely the opinion polls were right in predicting that Mrs Clinton would get more votes than Trump. Where they were not so good is in failing to spot Trump winning in a few key states. The problem with opinion polls in relation to Brexit is that the situation is so complex and ever changing that until we get to a point where there is a clear question to answer in another referendum or a General Election where the circumstances are clear, then the polls are irrelevant.

Originally posted by Jimenez

And yet you felt obliged to post this example. I do tend to agree with you on polls though. They were almost completely wrong about Trump at the last election & not by a percentage point or three

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 14 Aug 19 11.28am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am no more an expert than anyone else who is not a specialist.

What I do though is listen to those who are experts and not just optimistic bullsh*tters, or those who throw around insults like confetti in the hope that that helps their arguments. As soon as terms like "remoaner" enter the debate I realise that straws are being reached for.

It's not a question of whether we can "survive on our own". Of course we can. We could survive on baked beans and Budweiser but I wouldn't want to. It's a question of how we survive and what the future will be for our children and grandchildren. It's a question of our place in the world and how best to play it.

It amazes me that people seem to think that just because we make significant contributions to the EU, so have "negotiating leverage", that they must all roll over and accede to our demands. Of course if we leave without a deal it would hurt them too, as our economy and imports from them would shrink, so they want to avoid it, but they cannot do so on terms which would hurt them even more.

I think leaving is crazy but I think leaving without a proper arrangement for our future relationship, a "deal", is beyond crazy. It's the irresponsible narcissism of a group determined to prove a point and not of those who seek the best outcome for us all.

Philip Hammond got it right in his statement. A no deal Brexit would be a betrayal of the 2016 referendum result. The leave campaign promised that a new arrangement would be easily obtained and no-one should fear Brexit. No-one voted for, or even contemplated, leaving without one so if it is attempted Parliament has to intervene and stop it. That is their duty.

The majority of Brexiters would disagree and it is laughable to hear that twit talk about betrayal when he would choose to ignore the referendum altogether and remain.

No surprise that you would echo his hypocritical cobblers.

 

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