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August 22 2019 9.09pm

The Brexit Thread

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 14 Aug 19 11.32am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Should revoke it anyway on suicide grounds !!

Pound bombed to 0.9 euro and 1.2 dollars.

6 out of 10 investors leaving and that is the Daily Express.

How did I get there I risk expulsion from the Tony Blair Institute.....

 

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View W12's Profile W12 Flag 14 Aug 19 11.37am Send a Private Message to W12 Add W12 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle


Again, Parliament can revoke after changing it's mind because of events. It passed because a deal was expected. It could be revoked if that is not offered.

No, we are where we not because of "events" but because a satisfactory treaty has not been achieved because a remain government bungled (either deliberately of just through sheer incompetence) negotiations and a remain parliament made the situation worse i.e. by taking a no deal off the table, extending deadlines, frustrating progress but mostly by overtly signalling to the EU that it didn't have the stomach to stand up to it. Because of this we are left with a "deal" that gives the EU everything it wants (*plus* £39bn) ,gives the UK nothing and doesn't take us out of the EU.

None of that means anyone has a mandate to revoke article 50 and quite the opposite. There is only one mandate on the table and we are leaving the EU.

 

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View Spiderman's Profile Spiderman Flag Horsham 14 Aug 19 12.33pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am no more an expert than anyone else who is not a specialist.

What I do though is listen to those who are experts and not just optimistic bullsh*tters, or those who throw around insults like confetti in the hope that that helps their arguments. As soon as terms like "remoaner" enter the debate I realise that straws are being reached for.

It's not a question of whether we can "survive on our own". Of course we can. We could survive on baked beans and Budweiser but I wouldn't want to. It's a question of how we survive and what the future will be for our children and grandchildren. It's a question of our place in the world and how best to play it.

It amazes me that people seem to think that just because we make significant contributions to the EU, so have "negotiating leverage", that they must all roll over and accede to our demands. Of course if we leave without a deal it would hurt them too, as our economy and imports from them would shrink, so they want to avoid it, but they cannot do so on terms which would hurt them even more.

I think leaving is crazy but I think leaving without a proper arrangement for our future relationship, a "deal", is beyond crazy. It's the irresponsible narcissism of a group determined to prove a point and not of those who seek the best outcome for us all.

Philip Hammond got it right in his statement. A no deal Brexit would be a betrayal of the 2016 referendum result. The leave campaign promised that a new arrangement would be easily obtained and no-one should fear Brexit. No-one voted for, or even contemplated, leaving without one so if it is attempted Parliament has to intervene and stop it. That is their duty.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 14 Aug 19 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

No, we are where we not because of "events" but because a satisfactory treaty has not been achieved because a remain government bungled (either deliberately of just through sheer incompetence) negotiations and a remain parliament made the situation worse i.e. by taking a no deal off the table, extending deadlines, frustrating progress but mostly by overtly signalling to the EU that it didn't have the stomach to stand up to it. Because of this we are left with a "deal" that gives the EU everything it wants (*plus* £39bn) ,gives the UK nothing and doesn't take us out of the EU.

None of that means anyone has a mandate to revoke article 50 and quite the opposite. There is only one mandate on the table and we are leaving the EU.

The only "mandate" involved is the one we give a Parliament at a GE to take decisions on our behalf. You either believe in Parliamentary democracy or you don't. I do.

We don't have a "remain" Parliament. We have a Parliament whose job it is to use their wisdom to do what they believe to be right.

That a Brexiteer describes things as you do is par for the course. It doesn't mean it's true or that others see it that way.

 

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View Jimenez's Profile Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 14 Aug 19 1.08pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Originally posted by davidpercival

I don't like to disagree with an American about American politics but surely the opinion polls were right in predicting that Mrs Clinton would get more votes than Trump. Where they were not so good is in failing to spot Trump winning in a few key states. The problem with opinion polls in relation to Brexit is that the situation is so complex and ever changing that until we get to a point where there is a clear question to answer in another referendum or a General Election where the circumstances are clear, then the polls are irrelevant.


Actually I'm from Balham!!

 


Pro USA & Israel

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 14 Aug 19 1.09pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by W12

Yes, negotiations were sabotaged by a bunch of remainers in government intent on staying in the EU if not via some form of BRINO treaty then actually revoking A50. The EU originally offered us a free trade deal (twice I believe).

The negotiation should have gone like this:

1. Day 1 - The UK sets a date for departure
2. Day 2 - The UK puts in place a comprehensive plan for a WTO exit
3. Day 3 - The UK offers the EU reasonable terms on a free trade deal (rather than going cap in hand to Brussels)
4. Day x - The UK leaves the EU with or without a trade deal

What do we have now?

[Link]

Basically remainers leave us no choice but to leave on WTO terms.

I wonder if one day Brexiteers will actually take some responsibility - itís everyones fault (remainers, the EU, the governement) that their impossible pipe dream hasnít been fulfilled.

My suspicion is that they will continue to kick the can down the road, dismissing any of the inevitable consequences as not what they voted for and the fault of xxxx.

So very transparent.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 14 Aug 19 1.21pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I wonder if one day Brexiteers will actually take some responsibility - itís everyones fault (remainers, the EU, the governement) that their impossible pipe dream hasnít been fulfilled.

My suspicion is that they will continue to kick the can down the road, dismissing any of the inevitable consequences as not what they voted for and the fault of xxxx.

So very transparent.

They could always try counselling I suppose but that would only cause mass resignations from the Health Service.

 

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 14 Aug 19 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I wonder if one day Brexiteers will actually take some responsibility - itís everyones fault (remainers, the EU, the governement) that their impossible pipe dream hasnít been fulfilled.

My suspicion is that they will continue to kick the can down the road, dismissing any of the inevitable consequences as not what they voted for and the fault of xxxx.

So very transparent.

You can't take responsibility for something that hasn't happened yet.

Will Remainers take responsibility for continually talking down this country and it's economy? Will they take responsibility for undermine our negotiations with the EU?

There were calls for Trump to be prosecuted because his team held talks with the Russians before he became President. Meanwhile a steady stream of UK opposition politicians have met the EU to tell them that Parliament will not accept a no deal Brexit and they are doing their best to reverse the result of the referendum.

It's one thing to argue in Parliament against the government it's another to snuggle up the the EU negotiating team that is verging on treachery.

 


One more point

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 14 Aug 19 1.26pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The only "mandate" involved is the one we give a Parliament at a GE to take decisions on our behalf. You either believe in Parliamentary democracy or you don't. I do.

We don't have a "remain" Parliament. We have a Parliament whose job it is to use their wisdom to do what they believe to be right.

That a Brexiteer describes things as you do is par for the course. It doesn't mean it's true or that others see it that way.

Waffle.

Parliament, in it's wisdom, could not agree on a deal so now we get no deal.

Deal with it.

Now we have a left wing Remainer speaker of the house trying to stop the process.

No one voted for that.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 Aug 2019 1.27pm)

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 14 Aug 19 1.26pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I wonder if one day Brexiteers will actually take some responsibility - itís everyones fault (remainers, the EU, the governement) that their impossible pipe dream hasnít been fulfilled.

My suspicion is that they will continue to kick the can down the road, dismissing any of the inevitable consequences as not what they voted for and the fault of xxxx.

So very transparent.


You say that...but surely the only way to know if they're 'at fault' is to let the thing happen...in order to find out?

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View EverybodyDannsNow's Profile EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 14 Aug 19 1.29pm Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550


You say that...but surely the only way to know if they're 'at fault' is to let the thing happen...in order to find out?

And when it happens, no matter the outcome, the same people will sit there and say this isnít what they voted for and itís someone elseís fault it turned out like this.

I very much want it to happen now, just to get it over with.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 14 Aug 19 1.34pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

'Turkish army pension fund set to buy British Steel'.

So we leave the EU because we don't want them let in, and now we let them in ourselves !!!!!!!

'Brexit means brexit' - funny how you don't hear that anymore......

 

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