The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Mapletree  Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.41pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
'Lost an empire, not yet found a role' I think that is more accurate. 'sick man of Europe' is more about our industrial problems, strikes etc. things like that. So on leaving the EU, it looks like ever decreasing circles at best. There were many reasons we were the 'sick man' - for example productivity is not just about manpower but also investment in machinery etc. That is not my argument. What I said was we had to do something quickly to improve our economy, joining the EEC was seen as a highly positive step in that direction. The logic still applies, it's our most important market and was always intended to be so when we agreed to join the EEC.
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 8.43pm |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
Its lost 13% of its population, and 17% of its GDP. One of its members is having riots over petrol prices, one has had an illegal vote to split the country, at least two are flat broke.... it's done nothing. Needs to reform if it wants the UK to remain. Perhaps so. That still doesn't mean it did anything to worsen matters during the past three years. Britain is the best EU country at managing change, we should be doing just that not blowing up our markets.
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 Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 8.49pm |
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Originally posted by the silurian
was never an option....the vote was remain or leave! Whilst the implications of remaining were clear those of leaving were surrounded by a fog of claims, counter claims and downright lies. We were told a new "deal" was a piece of cake and the problems over the Irish border were never even mentioned. Now we are all so much better informed. Is being ignorant and stubborn an option, or is it compulsory? As an aside, what happens if there was a 2nd referendum and the result was a win for leave? Then where do we go? Best of 5? No. We let Parliament do it's job and decide for us. That's what we pay them for. If we hold a second referendum it should be stressed that it remains advisory and subject to review in the light of consequent events and experience.
Edited by the silurian (03 Sep 2019 6.56pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Sep 19 9.00pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
No it isn't. Read the transcripts from the original discussions and more specifically the first referendum. People were not stupid then and fully understood the longer term flow. Enoch Powell told parliament in his speech during October 1971’s marathon six-day parliamentary debate on Britain’s accession to the European Community: “I do not think the fact that this involves a cession — and a growing cession — of Parliament's sovereignty can be disputed. Indeed, I notice that those who are the keenest proposers of British entry are the most ready to confess — not to confess, but to assert — that of course this involves by its very nature a reduction of the sovereignty of the House.” When we joined the EEC - you won't remember this and presumably have not been taught it - Britain was 'the sick man of Europe'. We realised we had to improve the economy to get back any power, hence the discussions cited. Mess with the economy and the idea of self-determination is a pyhrric victory. We have nothing to be sovereign over. Powell was not Prime Minister.....should have been but unfortunately the best minds rarely attain the top. Prime Minister Edward Heath, television broadcast on Britain’s entry into the Common Market, January 1973 Here is a direct quote to the nation: 'There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified'
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 03 Sep 19 9.23pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
There were many reasons we were the 'sick man' - for example productivity is not just about manpower but also investment in machinery etc. That is not my argument. What I said was we had to do something quickly to improve our economy, joining the EEC was seen as a highly positive step in that direction. The logic still applies, it's our most important market and was always intended to be so when we agreed to join the EEC. Mainly no f*** it FULLY down to a Labour government & the corrupt union barons who held the country to ransom.
Pro USA & Israel |
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jeeagles  03 Sep 19 9.35pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Perhaps so. That still doesn't mean it did anything to worsen matters during the past three years. Britain is the best EU country at managing change, we should be doing just that not blowing up our markets. The debate about loosing access to the single market has already been had and Britons have said they’d rather try and have an alternative. Remainders must stop regurgitating old arguments that were doing the rounds before the referendum. If we do have a second vote, and promote the same arguments, it will get the same result (also if the vote is reversed leavers will be up in arms and we’d be no better off). I disagree about the EU not making anything worse. If a member state wants to leave, then clearly something is very wrong with the organization. EU leaders an MEPs have just buried their heads in the sand and tried to blame the situation on racists, liars, and power hungry politicians. Most people in the UK, don’t know what the EU voting system is, who their MEP is, how the EU works, or what they do. The EU has major problems which it needs to address as soon as possible.
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 9.39pm |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
The debate about loosing access to the single market has already been had and Britons have said they’d rather try and have an alternative. Remainders must stop regurgitating old arguments that were doing the rounds before the referendum. If we do have a second vote, and promote the same arguments, it will get the same result (also if the vote is reversed leavers will be up in arms and we’d be no better off). I disagree about the EU not making anything worse. If a member state wants to leave, then clearly something is very wrong with the organization. EU leaders an MEPs have just buried their heads in the sand and tried to blame the situation on racists, liars, and power hungry politicians. Most people in the UK, don’t know what the EU voting system is, who their MEP is, how the EU works, or what they do. The EU has major problems which it needs to address as soon as possible. We aren't debating 'loosing' access to the EU in this post. We are debating specifically what the EU has done in the past three years to further lose the hearts and minds of British people. So far nobody has explained to me what that is. As clearly this can't be a simple invention, I am waiting for enlightenment from those that made the assertion.
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| Mapletree Croydon 03 Sep 19 9.45pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
Mainly no f*** it FULLY down to a Labour government & the corrupt union barons who held the country to ransom. Yes, the move from industry to financial services proved very lucrative for some people, God Bless the Bankers. And membership of the EU bolstered our service industries like never before.
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| Maine Eagle USA 03 Sep 19 9.49pm |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
How is Tinder going ? Things are slowing down. I have a bird on the go, she is a psychology professor, so we can debate Brexit and Trump all night long, Lyons550.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| SavoyTruffle 03 Sep 19 10.03pm |
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Out of interest... to the Boris supporters in here. If 15 or so tories rebel against him tonight and vote for this bill. Would you think him weak if he doesn’t follow through with his threat to remove the whip?
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| Maine Eagle USA 03 Sep 19 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by SavoyTruffle
Out of interest... to the Boris supporters in here. If 15 or so tories rebel against him tonight and vote for this bill. Would you think him weak if he doesn’t follow through with his threat to remove the whip? I am not a Boris fan, but allow me to retort. He would indeed be weak. But then again, weak is as weak does. Haha he just lost, and someone said "not a good start, Boris"!! LMAO.
Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 03 Sep 19 10.31pm |
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I wonder how many of you, and the people as a whole, watched the key points of the debate and vote tonight and if so what you made of it? I watched a fair bit and although mostly predictable in the various arguments being put the surrounding mood music didn't go well for Johnson, in my view anyway. He came over as arrogant and blustering, and not the least bit Prime Ministerial. As for Rees Mogg, he shot himself in the foot by lounging on the front bench, a picture that is bound to haunt him. These things ought not to matter but as many people form opinions based on little else then they do.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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