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October 15 2019 9.48am

The Brexit Thread

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England. 15 Sep 19 1.56pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Maybe, but not me.

A poster made a claim he is unable to back up.

That's disingenuous at best.

The only support from elsewhere being some spurious idea that never mind whether any of it is actually true and written into the treaties it is going to all happen by default anyway if we stay in the EU.

Which is about as daft a concept as you can get. The UK is a sovereign state and as the EU requires total unanimity on every important issue we have the complete authority to reject any proposal which doesn't suit us.

So none of the suggested things are going to happen unless our Parliament agrees to them and they won't. Unless it becomes the, very unlikely, case that it is
in our own interests to do so. It won't happen by default.

rattled.com

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 15 Sep 19 2.02pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Been seeing some reaction today to the Lib Dems adopting a position of revoking A50 from Remainers who claim it is 'anit-democratic'. Makes me smile. The Lib Dems are honest and they voted on it as party policy. Fair play to them.

These Remain w***ers arse aching about it are the worlds worst hypocrites. They cannot accept that they lost in 2016 but still want to maintain a veneer of political virtue through trying to present us with a farce of a second referendum. t***s. My contempt for them has just gone up another notch, a state of affairs I never thought possible.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 15 Sep 19 2.09pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

A good video on the EU army issue.

It highlights just how some on the pro EU side have not been honest.

[Link]

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 15 Sep 19 2.14pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

Its no good trying to reason with this overage schoolboy Stirling . He only sees things his way and all of our points of views etc are beyond his understanding or comprehension. We are flogging a dead horse in his case. I shall not respond to his childish un educational posts anymore no matter what he comes up with. He is totally wasted space I am afraid.

It's wrong because it is just untrue. No other way of putting it.

The UK is a sovereign state and the EU demand unanimity over such decisions.

Unless the UK decide for themselves to follow the course of greater integration there is absolutely nothing that the EU can do to force them.

As I see no chance at all of us ever, via the UK Parliament, deciding to agree to any of that list of scaremongering "developments" there is not the slightest evidence to support such an idea.

The only "schoolboy" behaviour here on display is that of a small group of bullies trying to beat up someone in the playground who has defeated them by argument so all they have left is to change tactics and resort to something else. In the playground it's fists. Here it's insult.

As for you "giving up" responding to me I hope everyone can see, including those normally opposed to me, is that the real reason is that you are unable to produce the evidence I called you out on.

I have asked you many times to do so, without responding with anything more acid than sarcasm and irony. You have failed to give anything more than a smokescreen of insults in return. Frankly spoken this would be pretty funny if it wasn't quite so pathetic.

I would stop now if I were you. You are just making yourself look ridiculous.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 15 Sep 19 2.22pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by SpyroCrystal

Civil disobedience if the powers that be betray Brexit.

Oh there will be protests just as certainly as there are the Police to control them.

Managing our divided nation is a very difficult challenge.

We need a charismatic leader we can all believe in as never before but I see no candidate anywhere who has the slightest chance of fulfilling that role.

This isn't now just a fight between Brexit at any cost, Brexit with a "deal" and no Brexit at all.

This is a fight to ensure that our whole system of Parliamentary democracy is not buried by the concept that a referendum can trump it.

Those who wish to see the latter need to reflect long and hard about the long term implications should they achieve their wish.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Sep 19 2.31pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The problem is nothing of the sort. It's not "Labour Remainers" at all. It's Parliament as a whole not being satisfied that the arrangements so far negotiated on how we exit provide us all with a safe and secure way to do so.

The problem is that we now have a government which refuses to acknowledge that.

What happens beyond that is an open question. The 2016 referendum is now history. That some, like you, believe it's consequences mean we must leave the EU whatever the method or cost, is not shared by everyone. Whether you constitute a majority will probably have to be determined at some time.

So your logic is that if Remainers can delay Brexit long enough, that should invalidate a democratic vote which Parliament promised to honour no matter what?

I feel sorry for you.

As Stirling has already wisely done. It's time for me to ignore your garbage me thinks.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Sep 2019 2.33pm)

 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 15 Sep 19 3.09pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So your logic is that if Remainers can delay Brexit long enough, that should invalidate a democratic vote which Parliament promised to honour no matter what?

I feel sorry for you.

As Stirling has already wisely done. It's time for me to ignore your garbage me thinks.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Sep 2019 2.33pm)


The 2016 referendum only becomes history once the result, as promised, is implemented in a meaningful way. Until then, it is at the very centre of our national discourse.

And the longer it remains so, the more it festers and infects every aspect of our lives.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Sep 19 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Matov


The 2016 referendum only becomes history once the result, as promised, is implemented in a meaningful way. Until then, it is at the very centre of our national discourse.

And the longer it remains so, the more it festers and infects every aspect of our lives.

Precisely.
What is truly incredible is the Remain narrative blaming those who are actually trying to bring the affair to a conclusion for the continuing impasse.

 

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View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 15 Sep 19 3.59pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So your logic is that if Remainers can delay Brexit long enough, that should invalidate a democratic vote which Parliament promised to honour no matter what?

I feel sorry for you.

As Stirling has already wisely done. It's time for me to ignore your garbage me thinks.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Sep 2019 2.33pm)

No, as I have patiently explained countless times referendums have no legal status in the UK system of democracy. They are only ever given any legitimacy by Parliament. So the issue are the manifesto promises made by the political parties and the promise made by the then government in 2016 to respect the result.

Parliament most certainly did not promise to deliver Brexit "no matter what". That's just the interpretation of the hard line leaver. It's not mine nor is it the majority view in Parliament.

Manifesto promises can only ever be intentions. Nothing in life is cast in stone. Events change the way Parliament acts. It has always been thus.

Governments change, so what the Conservative government said in 2016 was updated by the 2017 election.

Parliament argues, and I agree, that they have tried very hard to honour the result of the referendum, which was a very close call anyway. They have never suggested, as a Parliament, that they would not go through with Brexit. All they have said is they won't accept an exit arrangement which in their judgement would harm the country and the union.

As I have also said many times that it is not Parliament's job just to deliver the opinion of those people who believe that the referendum result meant us leaving at any cost. It's their job to do what they believe is in the best interest of the whole country, however they voted, whether they voted or if they couldn't vote. That's the way our democracy functions.

As we go forward, and hold another election, then a new Parliament will have to decide the way forward. It won't be bound in any way by commitments given in 2016 however much people like you believe they ought to be.

So you have no need to feel sorry for me at all. We all need to feel sorry for the country being locked into this huge division which is made worse by the large scale ignorance on display of how our system works and the consequential cynicism being shown about our politicians. A cynicism which is still being exploited by some Leave politicians for their own benefit who ought to know better. Cameron makes some telling points!

Nor did "Stirling" decide to ignore me. He was instructed to do so by the moderator, as I was him.

You, of course, have that choice.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (15 Sep 2019 5.52pm)

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag Wisbech, England 15 Sep 19 6.28pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

So slimy, so disingenerous.

I had been ignoring this 'individual' for a while and requesting that he stopped directly replying to my posts.

He continually refused, so I decided to produce a standard stock answer asking that he stopped.

Again, he refused.

Eventually a mod got fed up with the situation and under pain of action he decided to change his behaviour.

There was no change required from me.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Sep 2019 6.28pm)

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 15 Sep 19 6.32pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Precisely.
What is truly incredible is the Remain narrative blaming those who are actually trying to bring the affair to a conclusion for the continuing impasse.

You must be joking H.

Leaving without a deal, 'do or die' etc. is only the start of brexit.

The only way to stop is just to cancel, forget about leavers and remainers.

Revoke with no blame to anybody and no everlasting brexit.

 

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England. 15 Sep 19 7.14pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

No, as I have patiently explained countless times referendums have no legal status in the UK system of democracy. They are only ever given any legitimacy by Parliament. So the issue are the manifesto promises made by the political parties and the promise made by the then government in 2016 to respect the result.

Parliament most certainly did not promise to deliver Brexit "no matter what". That's just the interpretation of the hard line leaver. It's not mine nor is it the majority view in Parliament.

Manifesto promises can only ever be intentions. Nothing in life is cast in stone. Events change the way Parliament acts. It has always been thus.

Governments change, so what the Conservative government said in 2016 was updated by the 2017 election.

Parliament argues, and I agree, that they have tried very hard to honour the result of the referendum, which was a very close call anyway. They have never suggested, as a Parliament, that they would not go through with Brexit. All they have said is they won't accept an exit arrangement which in their judgement would harm the country and the union.

As I have also said many times that it is not Parliament's job just to deliver the opinion of those people who believe that the referendum result meant us leaving at any cost. It's their job to do what they believe is in the best interest of the whole country, however they voted, whether they voted or if they couldn't vote. That's the way our democracy functions.

As we go forward, and hold another election, then a new Parliament will have to decide the way forward. It won't be bound in any way by commitments given in 2016 however much people like you believe they ought to be.

So you have no need to feel sorry for me at all. We all need to feel sorry for the country being locked into this huge division which is made worse by the large scale ignorance on display of how our system works and the consequential cynicism being shown about our politicians. A cynicism which is still being exploited by some Leave politicians for their own benefit who ought to know better. Cameron makes some telling points!

Nor did "Stirling" decide to ignore me. He was instructed to do so by the moderator, as I was him.

You, of course, have that choice.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (15 Sep 2019 5.52pm)

well lets hope the Lib Dems win the election and CANCEL the whole thing!! Ill just sit and watch as the UK burns during the riots which are bound to follow such a decision.

Oh wisbech, watch Camerons speech at the time where he PROMISES to honour the result, he states YOU THE PEOPLE will decide, NOT MPs NOT Parliament but YOU THE PEOPLE WILL DECIDE.....then the cowardly b****** ran away to earn millions with his book! He ,like all MPs couldnt give a s*** what the public want or think

Edited by the silurian (15 Sep 2019 7.17pm)

 

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