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March 29 2024 7.40am

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 03 Oct 19 10.12am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Another slack day at the office is it?

childish moderator.

 

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View palace_in_frogland's Profile palace_in_frogland Flag In a broken dream 03 Oct 19 10.14am Send a Private Message to palace_in_frogland Add palace_in_frogland as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

You really think this reflects well on you moderator from the Midlands?

Made me smile.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Oct 19 10.14am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

What cost?

Any! Whatever it cost you and I and the whole country to achieve his desire.

Johnson was an enthusiast for the EU but saw the opportunity for himself to lead the hardliner leavers.

He is a total fraud. As much a con man as is Trump.

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 03 Oct 19 10.21am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I haven't heard any "types" appearing worried it might work! Most seem confused by it's complexity, are still struggling to get their head around it and listening to the professional reactions for guidance.

I want it to work and be acceptable to all the interested parties but whose genuine objections also need to be respected. Let's now see what the EU say. If they can accept it then I sincerely hope that no-one in Parliament starts to play politics with it and would vote it through.

I remain sceptical. I don't trust Johnson an inch to not actually be playing political games himself, but I am quite prepared to see this work.

But your lot are so trust worthy
[Link]

 

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View cpfc_chap's Profile cpfc_chap Flag koh samui 03 Oct 19 10.36am Send a Private Message to cpfc_chap Add cpfc_chap as a friend

Originally posted by DanH

You really think this reflects well on you moderator from the Midlands?

Snowflake alert

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Online Flag Truro Cornwall 03 Oct 19 10.47am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

Exactly so what has the EU done since to modify its stance?

From an official EU document

"The onus to propose solutions which overcome the challenges created on the island of Ireland by the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the European Union and its decision to leave the customs union and the internal market remains on the United Kingdom."

The EU has been allowed top get away with it because May didn't put her foot down she allowed them to dictate the terms of the negotiation with the EU being the passive partner.

I think that is a complete misreading of the situation.

The EU reached an agreement with the UK after months of effort and made their position very clear indeed, without any ambiguity. They see the purpose behind the "backstop" as a non negotiable settled issue and have made that crystal clear. However, they have left the door open for us to find ways to achieve the same result through alternative arrangements, if we can find them.

I am no expert on the technicalities but from the various reactions I am hearing it seems unlikely that these ideas will do that. Indeed it seems much more likely that they are just political window dressing, designed to blame shift.

I hope I am wrong and these proposals turn out to be the key which unlocks the solution. I am not holding my breath.

Ultimately I think we will have to choose between one of three options. Leave without a deal. Leave with a "backstop" in place. Remain in the EU.

Maybe Parliament will now replace Johnson, form a short term government of national unity, request the extension and then vote to accept the "May" deal. All before Oct 31st in case the extension is refused and with an election soon afterwards.

Anyone think that's possible?

 

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View dannyboy1978's Profile dannyboy1978 Flag 03 Oct 19 11.10am Send a Private Message to dannyboy1978 Add dannyboy1978 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think that is a complete misreading of the situation.

The EU reached an agreement with the UK after months of effort and made their position very clear indeed, without any ambiguity. They see the purpose behind the "backstop" as a non negotiable settled issue and have made that crystal clear. However, they have left the door open for us to find ways to achieve the same result through alternative arrangements, if we can find them.

I am no expert on the technicalities but from the various reactions I am hearing it seems unlikely that these ideas will do that. Indeed it seems much more likely that they are just political window dressing, designed to blame shift.

I hope I am wrong and these proposals turn out to be the key which unlocks the solution. I am not holding my breath.

Ultimately I think we will have to choose between one of three options. Leave without a deal. Leave with a "backstop" in place. Remain in the EU.

Maybe Parliament will now replace Johnson, form a short term government of national unity, request the extension and then vote to accept the "May" deal. All before Oct 31st in case the extension is refused and with an election soon afterwards.

Anyone think that's possible?

Sums you up really!

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 03 Oct 19 12.12pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That seems a very odd idea to me. I would much rather people truly believed in what they said, and did things because they think they are right, than only do things that they believe will advance themselves personally.

That might be the case if they were elected as independents but they aren’t; they’re elected as representatives of a political party -supposedly with a common purpose.
I’d rather have a party leader who wants the job than one who’s unwilling. If the electorate aren’t happy then vote differently. That seems to be the general rule.

 

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 03 Oct 19 1.00pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better.

I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine.

It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy.

All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics.

I'm more than certain that quite a large proportion of people would differ from this tbh.

Plenty will have voted knowing what it meant for the country and for themselves, and there will be those that didn't give it much thought as well (on both sides).

There are ALWAYS 2 sides to any debate, issue and as such that's YOUR point of view, which i'm sure people accept on that basis...shame it appears you can't reciprocate.

I'd also suggest that the real losers in this sorry situation are the MP's and Parliament who've plumbed some pretty low depths (on both sides) and have been shown to not give a toss (regardless of how they wrap it up) about anyone other than themselves.

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 03 Oct 19 1.02pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

When you vote, for anything, you have the hope that your side will be successful.

But the idea that leave posters on here have, that they are entitled to the proceeds, is ridiculous.

I have had some hope when voting, often dashed but occasionally satisfied.

Governments, especially new ones, quickly become acquainted with reality often miles apart from their promises.

A good administration, in my view, is one that focuses on the reality and adjusts to it.

But all too often they just plough on regardless, buoyed by the voters partisanship.

Like us having to go through austerity you mean? i'd tend to agree with you on that.

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 03 Oct 19 1.04pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

I'm more than certain that quite a large proportion of people would differ from this tbh.

Plenty will have voted knowing what it meant for the country and for themselves, and there will be those that didn't give it much thought as well (on both sides).

There are ALWAYS 2 sides to any debate, issue and as such that's YOUR point of view, which i'm sure people accept on that basis...shame it appears you can't reciprocate.

I'd also suggest that the real losers in this sorry situation are the MP's and Parliament who've plumbed some pretty low depths (on both sides) and have been shown to not give a toss (regardless of how they wrap it up) about anyone other than themselves.

Hear hear.

I thought about not voting but I have decided I will although I will put some very rude words on my ballot paper (no violence) and add my name and address in case the old bill would like to feel my collar.

Would be more than happy to appear in court charged with abusing the electoral process because that what some people have been doing since 2016.

Edited by Badger11 (03 Oct 2019 1.05pm)

 


One more point

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View SW19 CPFC's Profile SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 03 Oct 19 1.08pm Send a Private Message to SW19 CPFC Add SW19 CPFC as a friend

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Don't waste your time arguing with him as most of us have given up and just ignore his ramblings


Changing the thread title is a little childish, don't you think?

Also pretty ironic considering the main narrative from the leave side is how much 'remainers' moan and whine. The obvious truth here is both sides are just as bad as each other. Load of over polarised, blinkered full time babies.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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