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March 28 2024 8.30pm

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Feb 20 7.08pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This is as disingenuous as the EU itself.....So mealy mouthed and it's just not straight with people.

The EU commission is the only....and I state only body, that can propose laws that go into the treaties.

If they haven't come up with it.....it isn't a law within the EU.....None of them are elected.

These treaties are binding to all member states. You have situations....like we had, where the people in a country haven't been allowed a vote on EU membership or treaty for forty or more years.....Democratic my foot.

These treaties, though they are from a foreign body and change the laws in every EU country do not have to be subject to a democratic vote unless that country's law requires it and the laws within them are binding.

So for example Gordon Brown quite famously signed this country into the 'Treaty of Lisbon'.....in an incredibly divisive act that helped add to the rifts that led to the referendum.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Feb 2020 7.23pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 20 7.09pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

I don't need to understand the ins and outs of democracy to the finest detail, I'm just a pleb like your self. Us plebs listen to the professional politicians like the priminister who tells the country it's a once in a life time dicision. We then take that word as true like a person of law in court, or any other professional offering a contact.
The damage would have been far reaching if we had not left and our democracy would have been hugely damaged more so than huge down turn you remoaners promised the day the leave vote came in.


Edited by dannyboy1978 (21 Feb 2020 4.45pm)

You speak for yourself! I was always aware that the referendum was a fraud, designed by the Tories to kill off the threat from UKIP and not a serious attempt to "consult the people". It went seriously wrong for them, and the country, and hopefully will be a lesson learned that will never be repeated.

Thanks though for being honest and admitting that you don't understand the finer points of our democracy. You aren't alone. The problem is that they do actually matter.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 20 7.16pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

They could be winners.
The future is exactly that.
Unpredictable and unknown.
If you have been irresponsible enough to convince them that the future will be bad because of brexit then you are a poor role model.
If you fit the above then I would go and tell them that you have spoken out of turn and wish the best for them and let them do research on their own.
I feel it may be that in the WE household any positives about brexit may be shouted down by the matriarch.
Just my guess which incidentally is what you are doing.

The future has been forecasted by enough experts to be assessed on the balance of probabilities to be significantly worse after the full Brexit, of whatever stripe, takes effect than if we had stayed in. Of course they could be wrong. It might not be quite that bad or it might be even worse.

My children, and grandchildren are all independently minded and have all reached the same conclusions without the slightest influence from me. Other than the upbringing I gave them.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Feb 20 7.19pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

' are all independently minded and have all reached the same conclusions'

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 20 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian

You backed Remain, as you never tire of telling us, over and over again......Remain LOST ergo YOU ARE A LOSER....

You know for sure that the country and your children will be losers? Your opinion only....what makes you right and all the others wrong.....you and your type will winge and whine, hopeing that your dreams come true, if they dont we will never hear from you again....sore loser!!

I have always rejected the concept of a referendum result throwing up a winner or a loser. Especially one this close. All it does is show where the balance of opinion lies. All opinions need to be respected and compromises sought as a consequence. To speak of winners and losers is to divide the people and that is exactly what has happened.

It is far from just my opinion that Brexit wasn't a wise decision. Many far more knowledgeable than me about economics and national security have expressed grave concerns

Too often the leavers have tried to taunt those who voted to remain with this assertion and tried to blame them for the divide. How often have we heard "suck it up, losers"? You do it again in your comment above.

It isn't true and it isn't healthy. .

Most of all it's very juvenile.

 

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View robdave2k's Profile robdave2k Flag 21 Feb 20 7.33pm Send a Private Message to robdave2k Add robdave2k as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I have always rejected the concept of a referendum result throwing up a winner or a loser. Especially one this close. All it does is show where the balance of opinion lies. All opinions need to be respected and compromises sought as a consequence. To speak of winners and losers is to divide the people and that is exactly what has happened.

It is far from just my opinion that Brexit wasn't a wise decision. Many far more knowledgeable than me about economics and national security have expressed grave concerns

Too often the leavers have tried to taunt those who voted to remain with this assertion and tried to blame them for the divide. How often have we heard "suck it up, losers"? You do it again in your comment above.

It isn't true and it isn't healthy. .

Most of all it's very juvenile.

As is continually talking down to everyone.

As a genuine question - do you think the Euro was a good decision?


 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 20 7.42pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Proposing and implementing laws, within the objectives of existing treaties, is not enacting new law. It is carrying out the delegated instructions of EU member states.

Treaties are democratically approved by EU members.

Delegated responsibility does not alter where the final authority rests.

Claiming anything else is what is truly disingenuous.

[Link]

The idea that the commission is some kind of undemocratic monster which has controlled everything is 100% propaganda and scaremongering. It is the servant of the EU members and not their master.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 20 7.46pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by robdave2k

As is continually talking down to everyone.

As a genuine question - do you think the Euro was a good decision?


I am sorry if I come over that way. As I am often fighting on my own against a tide of contrary opinion I find I need to express myself forcefully to avoid being drowned.

No. The Euro was a big step too far which we were wise to avoid.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Feb 20 8.02pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

? Errr....This guy is a willing contributor to these forums but still plays the victim card, even though he probably out posts most.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 21 Feb 20 8.29pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I have always rejected the concept of a referendum result throwing up a winner or a loser. Especially one this close. All it does is show where the balance of opinion lies. All opinions need to be respected and compromises sought as a consequence. To speak of winners and losers is to divide the people and that is exactly what has happened.

It is far from just my opinion that Brexit wasn't a wise decision. Many far more knowledgeable than me about economics and national security have expressed grave concerns

Too often the leavers have tried to taunt those who voted to remain with this assertion and tried to blame them for the divide. How often have we heard "suck it up, losers"? You do it again in your comment above.

It isn't true and it isn't healthy. .

Most of all it's very juvenile.

as long as they agree with yours?? You lost, dont pretend that had remain won, you wouldnt be crowing about every day!! You still talk down to everyone on here because they dont hold the same opinions as you! Just recently you called everyone here a bigot, care to explain that??? Just out of interest, how much does the EU pay you to 'spread the word'??

Edited by the silurian (21 Feb 2020 8.31pm)

 

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View robdave2k's Profile robdave2k Flag 21 Feb 20 8.44pm Send a Private Message to robdave2k Add robdave2k as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am sorry if I come over that way. As I am often fighting on my own against a tide of contrary opinion I find I need to express myself forcefully to avoid being drowned.

No. The Euro was a big step too far which we were wise to avoid.

And maybe, just maybe certain leave voters saw it that way too.

There were a multitude of reasons for and against and you may not like being tarred as a “remoaner” (a term I don’t personally agree with) but I took the view that it was a stand against further integration for integrations sake. Greece etc didn’t avoid it and if they take a stand no one will really care.

The point being is that it may be The UK leaving is what the EU needs to reform. At some point the question will get posed again, but for now (ignoring the tub thumping little Englander syndrome) a significant number of intelligent people voted to Leave. That suggests it’s broken.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 21 Feb 20 9.40pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian

as long as they agree with yours?? You lost, dont pretend that had remain won, you wouldnt be crowing about every day!! You still talk down to everyone on here because they dont hold the same opinions as you! Just recently you called everyone here a bigot, care to explain that??? Just out of interest, how much does the EU pay you to 'spread the word'??

Edited by the silurian (21 Feb 2020 8.31pm)

Of course not. Everyone means exactly what it says. If remaining had been the decision then I would still have argued for PR and the need for UKIP supporters to have a voice in Parliament. That's where these issues need to be aired and decided. Not here or in the media.

I did not call everyone here a bigot did I? Someone called me one which was a very unusual thing for me. All I said was that it at least made me feel at home here, because there are a few I would so describe. Who those are will remain with me! Not that everyone here is one.

My views are my own.

 

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