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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 20 12.15pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Actually I was more thinking that none of them are economic contributors and will be expecting lots of lovely EU money. I wonder if the EU is now having second thoughts. Just think if they had thrown Cameron a bone we would still be in the EU and more than paying our way, instead they now face the prospect of us as an economic rival and a queue of new entrants holding out the begging bowl. How long before the leaders of the individual countries tell the Eurocrats to shut up and give us a free trade deal. Some time ago the EU decided against admitting these states anytime soon. For the obvious reasons. Turkey zero chance. Looks quite likely to me that we could be looking at the death knells of this most recent European project. World depressions tend to do that. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 20 12.15pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Actually I was more thinking that none of them are economic contributors and will be expecting lots of lovely EU money. I wonder if the EU is now having second thoughts.

Just think if they had thrown Cameron a bone we would still be in the EU and more than paying our way, instead they now face the prospect of us as an economic rival and a queue of new entrants holding out the begging bowl.

How long before the leaders of the individual countries tell the Eurocrats to shut up and give us a free trade deal.

Some time ago the EU decided against admitting these states anytime soon. For the obvious reasons. Turkey zero chance. Looks quite likely to me that we could be looking at the death knells of this most recent European project. World depressions tend to do that.

Red and Blue Army!

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Stirlingsays 19 Mar 20 1.59pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Some time ago the EU decided against admitting these states anytime soon. For the obvious reasons. Turkey zero chance. Looks quite likely to me that we could be looking at the death knells of this most recent European project. World depressions tend to do that. These were poor countries when these plans were drawn up originally. I wouldn't trust anything the EU say myself. Greece was a poor country that didn't meet EU rules.....Essentially the prospect of a quick buck for Goldman Sachs and having another country buy Germany's exports quickly changed that. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Mar 20 1.59pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

These were poor countries when these plans were drawn up originally.

I wouldn't trust anything the EU say myself. Greece was a poor country that didn't meet EU rules.....Essentially the prospect of a quick buck for Goldman Sachs and having another country buy Germany's exports quickly changed that.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 20 2.18pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays These were poor countries when these plans were drawn up originally. I wouldn't trust anything the EU say myself. Greece was a poor country that didn't meet EU rules.....Essentially the prospect of a quick buck for Goldman Sachs and having another country buy Germany's exports quickly changed that. There have been some (mad dogmatic politicians) in the EU pushing for greater expansion. However, with the internal disagreements in place this has had to be shelved. Quite clearly, Hungary, Slovakia, Greece, Spain, Portugal will not want, and will absolutely not accept, any new (succession) countries. The EU is certainly stymied at the moment. Talks of expansion and greater federalism have completely dried up. [Frankly, well before the coronavirus]. Every nation for themselves at present. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 20 2.18pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

These were poor countries when these plans were drawn up originally.

There have been some (mad dogmatic politicians) in the EU pushing for greater expansion. However, with the internal disagreements in place this has had to be shelved. Quite clearly, Hungary, Slovakia, Greece, Spain, Portugal will not want, and will absolutely not accept, any new (succession) countries.
The EU is certainly stymied at the moment. Talks of expansion and greater federalism have completely dried up. [Frankly, well before the coronavirus]. Every nation for themselves at present.

Red and Blue Army!

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Stirlingsays 19 Mar 20 2.52pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC There have been some (mad dogmatic politicians) in the EU pushing for greater expansion. However, with the internal disagreements in place this has had to be shelved. Quite clearly, Hungary, Slovakia, Greece, Spain, Portugal will not want, and will absolutely not accept, any new (succession) countries. The EU is certainly stymied at the moment. Talks of expansion and greater federalism have completely dried up. [Frankly, well before the coronavirus]. Every nation for themselves at present. Those are the people actually in power within the EU. However I'd say your last two words are the most prescient. Let's not underestimate the power of Germany and France in deciding what happens....it's those two net contributors at the end of the day who have the biggest say......what the little 'takers' say not so much...even when they group together. It won't be long before Germany wants some more markets to sell to and you'll find the rules suddenly becoming malleable again. 'The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.' (Oscar Wilde) Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Mar 2020 2.54pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

19 Mar 20 2.52pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Those are the people actually in power within the EU.

However I'd say your last two words are the most prescient. Let's not underestimate the power of Germany and France in deciding what happens....it's those two net contributors at the end of the day who have the biggest say......what the little 'takers' say not so much...even when they group together.

It won't be long before Germany wants some more markets to sell to and you'll find the rules suddenly becoming malleable again.

'The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.'
(Oscar Wilde)

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Mar 2020 2.54pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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ex hibitionist Hastings 19 Mar 20 3.08pm
there is bureaucracy and rail roading and small is beautiful and the more local the better where government is concerned but the Germany economy dwarfs us as an exporter, compare each country's trade surplus/deficit and you'll see their policy of developing new markets is based on having things to sell to them not bureaucratic inertia, and another reason for trade to be as free as possible is that we import half our food - when travel restrictions ease off we'll be wanting free and frictionless movement of goods until we're in the clear to prevent serious shortages, better to make sure we can feed ourselves before we start celebrating our new found independence
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ex hibitionist

Hastings 19 Mar 20 3.08pm

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there is bureaucracy and rail roading and small is beautiful and the more local the better where government is concerned but the Germany economy dwarfs us as an exporter, compare each country's trade surplus/deficit and you'll see their policy of developing new markets is based on having things to sell to them not bureaucratic inertia, and another reason for trade to be as free as possible is that we import half our food - when travel restrictions ease off we'll be wanting free and frictionless movement of goods until we're in the clear to prevent serious shortages, better to make sure we can feed ourselves before we start celebrating our new found independence

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 20 3.10pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Those are the people actually in power within the EU. However I'd say your last two words are the most prescient. Let's not underestimate the power of Germany and France in deciding what happens....it's those two net contributors at the end of the day who have the biggest say......what the little 'takers' say not so much...even when they group together. It won't be long before Germany wants some more markets to sell to and you'll find the rules suddenly becoming malleable again. 'The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.' (Oscar Wilde) Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Mar 2020 2.54pm) France gives the EU legitimate political power and Germany pays for it all. Have to suspect their next elections will be interesting. The French system just means that any old lame duck (Macron) can come in at any stage - there are unlimited rounds of voting - so they will find a way to circumnavigate Le Penn. Most interesting is Germany - everyone has had enough of Merkel - despite everything else, people are simply bored of her. However, they tend towards cosy coalitions of centre parties with another unfathomable voting system. Again the AfD will get a lot of votes but will be left out of power by everyone else combined. What we will see is marching of Right Wing/ Nationalist parties and the end of this liberal agenda. When everyone creeps out of their foxholes, the last thing on their minds will be diversity or the idea of letting a load of immigrants in. The borders have already been reinforced - it's just that we haven't been told. Not suitable information for the likes of us. We might start to think immigration is bad or something like that. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 19 Mar 20 3.10pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Those are the people actually in power within the EU.

It won't be long before Germany wants some more markets to sell to and you'll find the rules suddenly becoming malleable again.

'The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.'
(Oscar Wilde)

Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Mar 2020 2.54pm)

France gives the EU legitimate political power and Germany pays for it all. Have to suspect their next elections will be interesting.
The French system just means that any old lame duck (Macron) can come in at any stage - there are unlimited rounds of voting - so they will find a way to circumnavigate Le Penn.
Most interesting is Germany - everyone has had enough of Merkel - despite everything else, people are simply bored of her. However, they tend towards cosy coalitions of centre parties with another unfathomable voting system. Again the AfD will get a lot of votes but will be left out of power by everyone else combined.
What we will see is marching of Right Wing/ Nationalist parties and the end of this liberal agenda. When everyone creeps out of their foxholes, the last thing on their minds will be diversity or the idea of letting a load of immigrants in.
The borders have already been reinforced - it's just that we haven't been told. Not suitable information for the likes of us. We might start to think immigration is bad or something like that.

Red and Blue Army!

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jeeagles 20 Mar 20 3.31pm
Italy and Spain are going to have one hell of a time recovering from this. Could be the end of the project. Or an opportunity to restart with a better model.
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jeeagles

20 Mar 20 3.31pm

Italy and Spain are going to have one hell of a time recovering from this.

Could be the end of the project.

Or an opportunity to restart with a better model.

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Midlands Eagle 20 Mar 20 4.34pm
Originally posted by jeeagles Italy and Spain are going to have one hell of a time recovering from this. Once the panic is over I fully intend to pump cash into the economies of both Italy and Spain
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Midlands Eagle

20 Mar 20 4.34pm

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Originally posted by jeeagles

Italy and Spain are going to have one hell of a time recovering from this.

Once the panic is over I fully intend to pump cash into the economies of both Italy and Spain

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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Mar 20 7.12pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Once the panic is over I fully intend to pump cash into the economies of both Italy and Spain Me too. I will be rescheduling our Italian tour as soon as it's 'safe'.
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Hrolf The Ganger

20 Mar 20 7.12pm

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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Once the panic is over I fully intend to pump cash into the economies of both Italy and Spain

Me too. I will be rescheduling our Italian tour as soon as it's 'safe'.

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cpfc_chap koh samui 20 Mar 20 8.10pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Once the panic is over I fully intend to pump cash into the economies of both Italy and Spain I'll still be boycotting EU states. Fancy South America for my next juant!
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cpfc_chap

koh samui 20 Mar 20 8.10pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Once the panic is over I fully intend to pump cash into the economies of both Italy and Spain

I'll still be boycotting EU states. Fancy South America for my next juant!

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cryrst Online The garden of England 20 Mar 20 8.35pm
Wissie could get his wish of being back in the EU. I have a feeling after this that GB may have a bigger part to play. At that point I would gladly vote to rejoin with new rules that at a minimum allow us to make our own rules and decisions which are best for us. Time will tell but I dont think we need Poirot. Another karma moment on the horizon.
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cryrst Online

The garden of England 20 Mar 20 8.35pm

Wissie could get his wish of being back in the EU.
I have a feeling after this that GB may have a bigger part to play.
At that point I would gladly vote to rejoin with new rules that at a minimum allow us to make our own rules and decisions which are best for us.
Time will tell but I dont think we need Poirot.
Another karma moment on the horizon.

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Mar 20 6.47am
The French seize coronavirus cargo bound for the UK [Link] So much for our European neighbours. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Mar 20 6.47am

The French seize coronavirus cargo bound for the UK

[Link]

So much for our European neighbours.

One more point

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