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April 19 2024 2.08pm

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 22 Jul 20 8.49pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

I am sure some on here will say you have missed the point or do not understand


And I am all ears. Always happy to be put right.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 22 Jul 20 9.55pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Admit it, you miss the EU.


 

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View Matov's Profile Matov Flag 22 Jul 20 10.44pm Send a Private Message to Matov Add Matov as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Admit it, you miss the EU.


It fascinates me. And I always said that if it truly offered a Pan-European future then I was open to persuasion. But it has not.

It is rotten to the core. I accept that I have far to much interest in the daily machinations of real politik and that the EU throws up so many interesting questions and contradictions but the UK is so far well out of it.

Just the utter stupidity of the Euro is proof for me that many of the leading lights of the European 'ideal' are beyond comprehension. And it has condemend millions of Europeans to poverty, reducing countries to effective vasel states. The biggest peace time disaster ever imposed on Europe.

Give me a genuine Pan-European ideal, with a glorious vision of the worlds greatest continent acting as one from the western most beachs of Ireland to the very edges of the Russian borders (and why should Russia not be included?) and I am all ears.

But what we have in Brussels is ludicrous. Just the farce of how it ups sticks and moves to Strasbourg for a few days every month is the only proof you need.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 23 Jul 20 8.49am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Matov

It fascinates me. And I always said that if it truly offered a Pan-European future then I was open to persuasion. But it has not.

It is rotten to the core. I accept that I have far to much interest in the daily machinations of real politik and that the EU throws up so many interesting questions and contradictions but the UK is so far well out of it.

Just the utter stupidity of the Euro is proof for me that many of the leading lights of the European 'ideal' are beyond comprehension. And it has condemend millions of Europeans to poverty, reducing countries to effective vasel states. The biggest peace time disaster ever imposed on Europe.

Give me a genuine Pan-European ideal, with a glorious vision of the worlds greatest continent acting as one from the western most beachs of Ireland to the very edges of the Russian borders (and why should Russia not be included?) and I am all ears.

But what we have in Brussels is ludicrous. Just the farce of how it ups sticks and moves to Strasbourg for a few days every month is the only proof you need.

I agree it is the politics of the EU that has so offended me. I am not against a free trade block as soon as they started the move to a political state it became a problem. Democracy was the last thing on their mind.

The other big fault with the EU is that it is a one size fits all solution. I would have gone with 2 or 3
versions that countries could have picked.

1. Inner group economically sound pooling their sovereignty and fiscal resources (euro) e.g. France and Germany. This is the EU superstate.

2. Free Trade group economically sound but unwilling to be part of EU superstate but cherry picking EU legislation they they agree with. This would be the UK and perhaps Holland.

3. Outer group of countries whose economies are not yet fully developed they have access to the free market and CAP but not the euro so they cannot economically destabilise group 1. Once they have sorted their lives out they can move to group 1 or 2.


 


One more point

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 23 Jul 20 10.30am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

I agree it is the politics of the EU that has so offended me. I am not against a free trade block as soon as they started the move to a political state it became a problem. Democracy was the last thing on their mind.

The other big fault with the EU is that it is a one size fits all solution. I would have gone with 2 or 3
versions that countries could have picked.

1. Inner group economically sound pooling their sovereignty and fiscal resources (euro) e.g. France and Germany. This is the EU superstate.

2. Free Trade group economically sound but unwilling to be part of EU superstate but cherry picking EU legislation they they agree with. This would be the UK and perhaps Holland.

3. Outer group of countries whose economies are not yet fully developed they have access to the free market and CAP but not the euro so they cannot economically destabilise group 1. Once they have sorted their lives out they can move to group 1 or 2.


There is no point in EU bashing now.

The process of blaming Brussels for all our faults, started by Mrs Thatcher, 'I must have a scapegoat' has run its course, it was wildly successful.

Really we should envy EU democracy as this package is subject to the EU parliament and further negotiations with member states.

The current British system, where an unelected civil servant and his mates seem to run the government is what I feared with the return of 'sovereignty'.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Wisbech Eagle's Profile Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 23 Jul 20 6.50pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Spiderman

So do you think the report on grooming gangs should be published in full?
Brexit should be cancelled! Give it a rest, it’s going ahead whether you like it or not

I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air.

Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:-

"This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative."

Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 23 Jul 20 7.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

There is no point in EU bashing now.

The process of blaming Brussels for all our faults, started by Mrs Thatcher, 'I must have a scapegoat' has run its course, it was wildly successful.

Really we should envy EU democracy as this package is subject to the EU parliament and further negotiations with member states.

The current British system, where an unelected civil servant and his mates seem to run the government is what I feared with the return of 'sovereignty'.

If there is no point in EU bashing then conversely, I would have thought, there is no point in EU praising.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jul 20 7.26pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air.

Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:-

"This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative."

Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint.


What a lot of cobblers.

We had a referendum, you lost. You can't accept that

Some people can never be wrong, but only in their own minds.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 23 Jul 20 7.32pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

There is no point in EU bashing now.

The process of blaming Brussels for all our faults, started by Mrs Thatcher, 'I must have a scapegoat' has run its course, it was wildly successful.

Really we should envy EU democracy as this package is subject to the EU parliament and further negotiations with member states.

The current British system, where an unelected civil servant and his mates seem to run the government is what I feared with the return of 'sovereignty'.

So the PM can't have advisers now?

What a lot of old twaddle.

 

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View cryrst's Profile cryrst Flag The garden of England 23 Jul 20 7.53pm Send a Private Message to cryrst Add cryrst as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air.

Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:-

"This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative."

Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint.

It has been stated by brexiteers that rejoining the eu wasnt off the table at all. Under our terms.
That line is stating what arch brexiteers have already said. Not that it will be any time soon as the eu is flawed so much that that needs overhauling.

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 23 Jul 20 8.00pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air.

Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:-

"This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative."

Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint.

You may be touching a nerve that the public don't really want to leave but it is too late.

And it's difficult to see why the EU would want us back in.

They can move on, as we have seen with the virus package, without the perpetual UK block on progress.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 23 Jul 20 8.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

You may be touching a nerve that the public don't really want to leave but it is too late.

And it's difficult to see why the EU would want us back in.

They can move on, as we have seen with the virus package, without the perpetual UK block on progress.

Where do you think that money is coming from? It isn't even enough money anyway.

You seem to be under the impression that the EU are a cohesive happy family. Yet the Italian debt crises will soon arise and it's in the balance whether it'll still be in the EU in five years.....Spain as well.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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