But in your words leaving the EU is the best thing that has ever happened so the UK cannot be failing or suffering can it?

Unless you know that it is going to fail or suffer but you cannot bear to face reality.

Reality: no one path is perfect and without obstacles. I've acknowledged that (as did the campaign). My point however stands: it will be the best thing that has ever happened to the UK. I'm afraid we are not all instant-gratification 24hr-news addicts. Some of us see the big picture and longer term. So, if we don't get a US FTA within the 4 months it took Jordan, or if it us longer than the average 18 months it currently takes, so bloody what?

It's a "price" worth paying to be out of a progressively centralising, federalising profligate political experiment for which (with incoming net recipient members) we will pay ever more into, have ever less influence over, and hand ever more authority and competence to.

And herein lay the problem with the Remainiac campaign. They spent so much time trying to terrify us, they didn't offer up what our future (or even a positive future) would hold under the EU. We've gone from a trading association of a few nations to smuggling in a 28-bloc federalist constitution through the back door in the space of 40 years. No one could tell us what laws we'd have rammed through into our statute books in 10 years time, which destitute countries we'd next be bankrolling, what our budget contributions would be next year, or even how many economic migrants would arrive. Little wonder the Leave side focused on the complete lack of control we have over such fundamentals.

The deflection, or even outright lie that a vote for Remain was a vote for the status quo was utterly outrageous, and it showed in polling afterwards: voters were not sold on an ever-closer EU superstate and more damning still, the Remain side lacked the integrity and honesty in selling this as both their position and the inevitable fate of this country.

So, if you'll excuse me, I'll happily take some short-term inconvenience and obstacles (much of it engineered by that lovely progressive club you lot fantasise over) to be well rid of the EU.

Seriously who are you kidding about reform in the EU Nick?

Not going to happen willingly.

It has been spoken about for decades as a kind of fig leaf but the EU hasn't changed and isn't changing and anyone pushing that myth is doing so with zero evidence for it.

If 'free movement' ends up in the deal it will see the Tory government fall. No deal is better than that. That's why I agree with this snap election. It gives the government the option of doing that without the lip tremblers derailing it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Apr 2017 12.33am)

As a european I am against any concession or deal with the UK.

You divorced so f**k of out of it and take your brexit with you.