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March 29 2024 2.48pm

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 30 Jul 18 4.19pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

I thought the UK already had a trade deal with China through Wish.com

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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View Beanyboysmd's Profile Beanyboysmd Flag 30 Jul 18 5.09pm Send a Private Message to Beanyboysmd Add Beanyboysmd as a friend

Brexit could work but only if our leadership is fantastic, and thats the problem, there isnt a great leader between them, not from any party left right or centre. The main problem is that we have accepted washy yes men and women dominate politics for such a long time that when something this massive comes along, nobody has both the vision or the ability to do anything about it. Companies will be fine, as somebody said earlier they will either cope or be replaced by a company that can, but we still have to sort out Northern Ireland, Gibralter and other major issues. If we dont then other issues will come back to bite us (Scotland, Wales ect).

Theresa May had a long record of indecision even before being PM, aparently she was a nightmare to deal with or to work alongside...it really does look like that hasnt changed much...
We need a strong leadership and no contenders are good enough...

As a remainer, thats why im nervous...

 

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View serial thriller's Profile serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 30 Jul 18 5.10pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Britain are at the G8 etc because of the size of the economy. They are also on the UN security council through the endeavour and effectiveness of the armed forces. They are also second only to the US in NATO with NATO regularly commanded by British generals.

In the EU for a regular and consistent period the UK has had the fastest growing economy - except for Ireland at times (which is hardly surprising considering Ireland was pretty much a developing nation not that long ago).

The EU, however, renaiged on the rebates due consistently, tried to implement a financial tax to hurt London solely, and consistently treated British wishes with contempt. I have little doubt that Merkel's ridiculous and, frankly reckless, immigration policy (if just letting anybody in who says they are a Syrian can be called a policy) was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Since then the EU has been printing money whilst imposing austerity on countries such as Spain and Greece. The EU have empowered people like Le Penn with their innate greed. Find me an EU MP that doesn't have their family employed as their private secretary for an additional 200 grand and you could get close to answering some questions about why people may be willing to take a short-term hit to get rid of the EU.

The final thing I will say is whatever happens politically, business will continue to do business: where one company pulls out or goes bust, another will take its place. Consumerism rules and Britain has 60 million people who like to buy crap. Leaving the EU will not change this - no matter how much scaremongering there is.

I think there is obviously a lot of validity in your critiques of the EU, but I think they ignore a couple of big problems which we face at the minute.

Leaving the EU was, supposedly, a chance for us to 'take back control' from an undemocratic, corrupt and overweening economic and political bloc. We were becoming sovereign again, so we were told. The issue as I see it is that the EU is merely one of many political unions which Britain finds itself in. We are, as you say, part of NATO, and as such are obliged to follow certain defence spending targets, although NATO too are an incredibly non-democratic institution. We take loans from thee IMF, and very well may be doing so again soon, and the conditions for these loans are often punitive economic restrictions. And of course we have allowed our capital city to become the playground of global finance, who hold no particular national allegiance, pay risible sums of tax and insist on certain political conditions in order to give some shine to our GDP figures.

Then there are the international trade deals, private and extra-state development schemes etc., many of which are so shady that they provide no public recordings of their decisions, and all of which aim to tie the hands of our elected officials.

The problem for me is that there was a legitimate argument raised with Brexit, which critiqued the international capital as being prohibitive of political autonomy. But it wasn't sophisticated enough to see the full picture, instead focusing on only one instance of this reality. It's a bit like playing Man City and deciding that De Bruyne is so dangerous, that you get your whole team to mark him out of the game. But meanwhile, Aguero and Sane are left free to do as they please.

Now we're at the ironic stage whereby our lack of coherency will mean we are even more dependent on institutions like the World Bank, the IMF and global financial services to prop up our legislation and economy. All three insist on certain spending rules, certain policy decisions, without even one directly accountable body, which the EU at the very least had.

All the while our goveernment seems to be so paralysed by their newfound sense of autonomy and sovereignty that they have no idea what to do, as if they'd spent the past 4 decades having decisions made for them, and now that their carer isn't here, they throw a tantrum and do nothing.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 7.05pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

I think there is obviously a lot of validity in your critiques of the EU, but I think they ignore a couple of big problems which we face at the minute.

Leaving the EU was, supposedly, a chance for us to 'take back control' from an undemocratic, corrupt and overweening economic and political bloc. We were becoming sovereign again, so we were told. The issue as I see it is that the EU is merely one of many political unions which Britain finds itself in. We are, as you say, part of NATO, and as such are obliged to follow certain defence spending targets, although NATO too are an incredibly non-democratic institution. We take loans from thee IMF, and very well may be doing so again soon, and the conditions for these loans are often punitive economic restrictions. And of course we have allowed our capital city to become the playground of global finance, who hold no particular national allegiance, pay risible sums of tax and insist on certain political conditions in order to give some shine to our GDP figures.

Then there are the international trade deals, private and extra-state development schemes etc., many of which are so shady that they provide no public recordings of their decisions, and all of which aim to tie the hands of our elected officials.

The problem for me is that there was a legitimate argument raised with Brexit, which critiqued the international capital as being prohibitive of political autonomy. But it wasn't sophisticated enough to see the full picture, instead focusing on only one instance of this reality. It's a bit like playing Man City and deciding that De Bruyne is so dangerous, that you get your whole team to mark him out of the game. But meanwhile, Aguero and Sane are left free to do as they please.

Now we're at the ironic stage whereby our lack of coherency will mean we are even more dependent on institutions like the World Bank, the IMF and global financial services to prop up our legislation and economy. All three insist on certain spending rules, certain policy decisions, without even one directly accountable body, which the EU at the very least had.

All the while our goveernment seems to be so paralysed by their newfound sense of autonomy and sovereignty that they have no idea what to do, as if they'd spent the past 4 decades having decisions made for them, and now that their carer isn't here, they throw a tantrum and do nothing.

I would think that self-sufficiency should be the ultimate goal of any state or society. So rather than have to rely on handouts the UK should look to invest in industries they are good at. Things like defence for example - and no I don't care who they do business with in particular.

As for the current state of politics I don't look at the EU as a carer - I look on it as a jailor or, at best, an old-fashioned teacher with a large cane who makes everyone do lines pointlessly.

I do agree, however, that our politicians across the parties are a poor bunch at best. They are the worst I can remember since people like Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock but obviously I am forgetting all of Blair's opponents - who seemed worse than their spitting image dolls. More like cabbage patch kids. Corbyn would be a great Cabbage Patch doll when you think about it. May would probably be a decent nursery school teacher or similar - hardly a leader of one of the world's most powerful countries.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View europalace's Profile europalace Flag Europe 30 Jul 18 7.28pm Send a Private Message to europalace Add europalace as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

So rather than have to rely on handouts the UK should look to invest in industries they are good at. Things like defence for example - and no I don't care who they do business with in particular.

Really? So you don't mind your money being invested in arms that will inevitably kill civilians, ordinary people with families, young children? How nice.


Originally posted by ASCPFC
As for the current state of politics I don't look at the EU as a carer - I look on it as a jailor or, at best, an old-fashioned teacher with a large cane who makes everyone do lines pointlessly.


That's just the perception that people like Farage & Johnson have created to get you to vote for them. Their lies clearly worked.

The 'EU' is made up of 28 nations. All 28 have to agree on nearly everything before it's made into any kind of EU wide law. That means everyone has agreed, even your government. You might not like the decision but it's no different than a local law being made that you don't like. The EU has been made a scapegoat for so many UK centric issues by the British for years. In doing so, they've effectively been blaming the other 27 nations for their issues, it's always someone else's fault. Of course that will continue for decades to come.


Edited by europalace (30 Jul 2018 7.29pm)

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 7.59pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by europalace


That's just the perception that people like Farage & Johnson have created to get you to vote for them. Their lies clearly worked.

The 'EU' is made up of 28 nations. All 28 have to agree on nearly everything before it's made into any kind of EU wide law. That means everyone has agreed, even your government. You might not like the decision but it's no different than a local law being made that you don't like. The EU has been made a scapegoat for so many UK centric issues by the British for years. In doing so, they've effectively been blaming the other 27 nations for their issues, it's always someone else's fault. Of course that will continue for decades to come.


Edited by europalace (30 Jul 2018 7.29pm)

I quite clearly just used defence as an example. As for killing innocent people, I should think that the Russians and Chinese have those markets wrapped up. We will have to content ourselves with countries such as Saudi Arabia or the UAE, along with some commonwealth countries. I don't envisage the UK becoming some kind of rogue nation or 'lord of war'. The UK is already a big player in the defence industry and I hope it remains that way - and carries on making cutting edge technological weaponry. I should think your average dictator is happy enough with crappy Chinese knock-offs of Soviet Era weapons.

For your EU and 28 eager and willing participants - did everyone agree to Merkel's immigration policy? I believe many were against it but were still forced to deal with it. Hungary, Austria, Slovakia spring to mind. Even countries like France obviously showed major concern at immigration policy and this strengthened Le Penn.

The other obvious example is fiscal and austerity. When Greece clearly voted against it, and other countries were considering similar, they were beaten into submission. German police were drafted into Greece - and I haven't even made this up!

There are plenty of other areas countries have not agreed to but have been forced to go along. Most countries, and in particular, the voting public have not been given a choice about the EU. However, in many EU countries Anti-EU parties are on the rise. This perhaps suggests that Brexit may not quite be the anomaly people think that it is.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Online Flag Croydon 30 Jul 18 8.02pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

The EU blame game should end, it is harmful to us.

Our biggest problem has nothing whatever to do with the EU, its is our productivity.

We are accustomed to the comparisons that a french worker works 4 days to achieve what a british worker needs 5 days for, as an example.

We are only a democratic society in a very minor way, we are and have been controlled particularly by the banks and corporations since the crash of 2008.

They have no interest in raising wages, consequently workers cannot input into the economy and create demand, thus improving productivity.

The economic team I have just been listening to in London say that the UK is 'petering out' and it is a shame as we will be missed.

But they were very quick to hone in on the wage depression in the UK and their view of the UK as a Lprds/Serfs society.

The Lords are the people you are 'returning control' to.

 

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View ASCPFC's Profile ASCPFC Online Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 30 Jul 18 8.07pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

The EU blame game should end, it is harmful to us.

Our biggest problem has nothing whatever to do with the EU, its is our productivity.

We are accustomed to the comparisons that a french worker works 4 days to achieve what a british worker needs 5 days for, as an example.

We are only a democratic society in a very minor way, we are and have been controlled particularly by the banks and corporations since the crash of 2008.

They have no interest in raising wages, consequently workers cannot input into the economy and create demand, thus improving productivity.

The economic team I have just been listening to in London say that the UK is 'petering out' and it is a shame as we will be missed.

But they were very quick to hone in on the wage depression in the UK and their view of the UK as a Lprds/Serfs society.

The Lords are the people you are 'returning control' to.

Do Engels and Marx do podcasts?

 


Red and Blue Army!

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 30 Jul 18 8.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

The EU blame game should end, it is harmful to us.

Our biggest problem has nothing whatever to do with the EU, its is our productivity.

We are accustomed to the comparisons that a french worker works 4 days to achieve what a british worker needs 5 days for, as an example.

We are only a democratic society in a very minor way, we are and have been controlled particularly by the banks and corporations since the crash of 2008.

They have no interest in raising wages, consequently workers cannot input into the economy and create demand, thus improving productivity.

The economic team I have just been listening to in London say that the UK is 'petering out' and it is a shame as we will be missed.

But they were very quick to hone in on the wage depression in the UK and their view of the UK as a Lprds/Serfs society.

The Lords are the people you are 'returning control' to.

And to think some complain about being called remoaners.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 30 Jul 18 8.24pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by europalace


That's just the perception that people like Farage & Johnson have created to get you to vote for them. Their lies clearly worked.

The 'EU' is made up of 28 nations. All 28 have to agree on nearly everything before it's made into any kind of EU wide law. That means everyone has agreed, even your government. You might not like the decision but it's no different than a local law being made that you don't like. The EU has been made a scapegoat for so many UK centric issues by the British for years. In doing so, they've effectively been blaming the other 27 nations for their issues, it's always someone else's fault. Of course that will continue for decades to come.


Edited by europalace (30 Jul 2018 7.29pm)

hogwash and balderdash!! to quote someone whose name escapes me!!

 

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View silvertop's Profile silvertop Flag Portishead 31 Jul 18 9.58am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by the silurian

hogwash and balderdash!! to quote someone whose name escapes me!!

Hmm. What he says is all fact save the opinion that the anti-EU lobby blame many problems that are of our own making on the EU.

He has failed to give specific examples of this. You have failed to give any examples where there is a clear line between EU act and our misfortune.

Sad, as I am sure there are numerous instances of both and this pointless discussion could rumble on for a few hundred pages.

 

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View europalace's Profile europalace Flag Europe 31 Jul 18 11.27am Send a Private Message to europalace Add europalace as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

Hmm. What he says is all fact save the opinion that the anti-EU lobby blame many problems that are of our own making on the EU.

He has failed to give specific examples of this. You have failed to give any examples where there is a clear line between EU act and our misfortune.

Sad, as I am sure there are numerous instances of both and this pointless discussion could rumble on for a few hundred pages.


I gave a perfect example earlier in this discussion where the UK can impose the 3 month rule on EU citizens who can be deported from the UK and are not self supporting within that time. The UK decided not to use that option. Many still blame the EU for freedom of movement when there is a law in place for every EU nation to stop those who don't contribute to the economy.

 

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