Labour hire Varoufakis as advisor
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jamiemartin721  Reading 01 Mar 16 4.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Varoufakis wasn't responsible for Greece's problems but he did exacerbate them with his naive game of chicken. You and nick seem to entirely blame the EU for f***ing over Greece yet you, presumably, want us to stay in this club that f***s over it's members? In fairness to Varoufakis, there wasn't really much to lose, the economy was as f**ked as f**ked gets. It always seemed like a Hail Mary. Its not the EU's fault that Greece defaulted on its debt payments. They presented fraudulent evidence of their qualification year on year, and paid commercial interests to help them achieve that fraud (allegedly Goldman Sachs).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Stuk Top half 01 Mar 16 4.17pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
In fairness to Varoufakis, there wasn't really much to lose, the economy was as f**ked as f**ked gets. It always seemed like a Hail Mary. Its not the EU's fault that Greece defaulted on its debt payments. They presented fraudulent evidence of their qualification year on year, and paid commercial interests to help them achieve that fraud (allegedly Goldman Sachs). And the EU let them because they wanted and needed more members, and they still do.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 4.28pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Varoufakis wasn't responsible for Greece's problems but he did exacerbate them with his naive game of chicken. You and nick seem to entirely blame the EU for f***ing over Greece yet you, presumably, want us to stay in this club that f***s over it's members? Presumably? There you go, projecting your own ideas on what I think again. I'm actually torn on the referendum. Varoufakis is one of the most respected economists in the world, yet because he is anti-austerity he's dismissed by people who more than likely haven't even read any of his work.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 4.33pm |
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Originally posted by chris123
This is untrue - Greece is paying less than 3%, less than Spain, Ireland and Portugal. Given the amount that has already been written off by Sovereign lenders and bond holders, I'd say anything but a stitch up. Forced to sell of public assets and infrastructure in the name of neoliberalism. Most definitely a stitch up. Still banks can be bailed out and not allowed to fail. That's a stitch up too. Yes the pre Syriza government failed, the rich hid their assets (there was a program about Greece on BBC2 a couple of weeks ago that covered this - I suggest people actually find out a little bit about what happened before jumping to conclusions) now ordinary people are suffering because of it.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 01 Mar 16 4.34pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
And the EU let them because they wanted and needed more members, and they still do. I don't know whether they knew the evidence was fraudulent - It seems the Greeks were going to quite impressive lengths to hide debts. Granted the EU should have noticed, that's fair enough, but the blame isn't just with them - What was happening wasn't really mismanagement, it was wholesale fraud. It seems they were paying financial institutions a lot of money to hide their debts and create false credits.
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| Stuk Top half 01 Mar 16 4.37pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Presumably? There you go, projecting your own ideas on what I think again. I'm actually torn on the referendum. Varoufakis is one of the most respected economists in the world, yet because he is anti-austerity he's dismissed by people who more than likely haven't even read any of his work. When I wrote "you, presumably," I was talking to Dan. I have seen that you have said you're still pontificating, so you've assumed incorrectly. Varoufakis might know his economics (that you state he is one of most respected in the world is your opinion, unless you've done a survey?) but he knows sod all about politics, which has been well proven.
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| Stuk Top half 01 Mar 16 4.39pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I don't know whether they knew the evidence was fraudulent - It seems the Greeks were going to quite impressive lengths to hide debts. Granted the EU should have noticed, that's fair enough, but the blame isn't just with them - What was happening wasn't really mismanagement, it was wholesale fraud. It seems they were paying financial institutions a lot of money to hide their debts and create false credits. Yep, and both sides are culpable.
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| Stuk Top half 01 Mar 16 4.41pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Forced to sell of public assets and infrastructure in the name of neoliberalism. Most definitely a stitch up. Still banks can be bailed out and not allowed to fail. That's a stitch up too. Yes the pre Syriza government failed, the rich hid their assets (there was a program about Greece on BBC2 a couple of weeks ago that covered this - I suggest people actually find out a little bit about what happened before jumping to conclusions) now ordinary people are suffering because of it. That's an improvement. In your 3rd post they "were forced to give away"
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 4.44pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
That's an improvement. In your 3rd post they "were forced to give away" Actually as part of the bail out they were pretty much told to give them away as part of the deal.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 01 Mar 16 4.47pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Yep, and both sides are culpable. Not really, the victim of a fraud isn't generally culpable of the crime.
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| Stuk Top half 01 Mar 16 4.56pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Not really, the victim of a fraud isn't generally culpable of the crime. There's not a victim, they were both being fraudulent to make gains. That it went tits up doesn't suddenly make them a victim.
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| Stuk Top half 01 Mar 16 4.57pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Actually as part of the bail out they were pretty much told to give them away as part of the deal. Like the ports.... "Greece has named China's state-controlled Cosco shipping group as the preferred bidder in a €1.5bn deal to control and run Piraeus port" Nothing was given away.
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