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April 20 2024 5.08am

Labour hire Varoufakis as advisor

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Mar 16 10.36pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Bail them out. If it's ok for the banks...

As usual it's Joe Public what suffers.

You simply cannot be taken seriously if that is your economic philosophy.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 01 Mar 16 10.39pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

11% of Greece's population live in material deprivation.
Youth unemployment is over 55% ,around 27% for the whole population. Fascism is rising, crime soaring, the economy has shrunk every year for the last 5 years (at least) . Since February 2012, any Greek who falls over 5000 euro's in debt can be imprisoned to work off the debt.


Tell me, what is more important, peoples lives and well being or paying off an 88 billion euro loan with the enforced austerity that comes with it (money that was produced from thin air by banks)just so that they could stay in the Euro?

I guess that means no.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 10.40pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

You simply cannot be taken seriously if that is your economic philosophy.

And your philosophy is the suffering of millions.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 10.44pm

Originally posted by chris123

I guess that means no.

As far as I understand, it's European banks.

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Mar 16 10.51pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

And your philosophy is the suffering of millions.

No it's not. I have never advocated the suffering of millions.

That's the lazy labelling you use to try and give yourself the moral high ground.

It sums you up. You feel that only you and your sort have the ability to empathise with people. It's bulls***.

I don't believe you actually care for people. All you want is power. It's sad, really.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 01 Mar 16 10.53pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

As far as I understand, it's European banks.

No, what remains after the write offs in 2012 and before is sovereign debt. Germany the most, then France, Italy and Spain. The rest is owed to the smaller nations in the eurozone and the IMF. The old bank creditors are Greek banks.

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 01 Mar 16 11.06pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

No, what remains after the write offs in 2012 and before is sovereign debt. Germany the most, then France, Italy and Spain. The rest is owed to the smaller nations in the eurozone and the IMF. The old bank creditors are Greek banks.

The Greeks owe money to everyone. Banks, states, bond investors.

They are like the arsehole at university who asked everyone to lend him a fiver. He fully knows that owing a fiver to an individual means nothing but the accumulative effect of owing a fiver to two hundred people means something.

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 01 Mar 16 11.16pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

The Greeks owe money to everyone. Banks, states, bond investors.

They are like the arsehole at university who asked everyone to lend him a fiver. He fully knows that owing a fiver to an individual means nothing but the accumulative effect of owing a fiver to two hundred people means something.

Most of it is sovereign.

[Link]

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 11.42pm

Originally posted by chris123

Most of it is sovereign.

[Link]

Link doesn't work, I think the sweary filter got it!

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Mar 16 11.49pm

Notwithstanding Greece's initial debts, the bailout has not given them the chance to claw their way back in anyway to benefit the citizens of the country. It's worth noting that Greece's predicament is more down to the IMF and OECD than the EU. In fact austerity measures as a tool for taking public assets and putting them into private ownership can be traced back to the Bretton Woods conference in July 1944.
The IMF, which was borne from the conference, give out loans through the mechanism of SAP's (structural adjustment programmes) with unaffordable repayments in order to asset strip countries as way of repaying the unaffordable loans.
SAP's remove capital controls of the in and outflow of money, dictate public spending, prioritize debt repayment and corporate welfare over infrastructure development and human welfare and demand supression of wages and restrictions on unions.
All this mainly started in Africa but spread elsewhere as neoliberals looked for new markets to explore.
In 2011, for every $1 that creditor nations gave debt ridden countries around the world, the countries gave back $5 in debt repayment.
The whole thing is skewed in favour financial institutions rather than actually helping countries. This is wrong imho.

 

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View robdave2k's Profile robdave2k Flag 02 Mar 16 1.19am Send a Private Message to robdave2k Add robdave2k as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Notwithstanding Greece's initial debts, the bailout has not given them the chance to claw their way back in anyway to benefit the citizens of the country. It's worth noting that Greece's predicament is more down to the IMF and OECD than the EU. In fact austerity measures as a tool for taking public assets and putting them into private ownership can be traced back to the Bretton Woods conference in July 1944.
The IMF, which was borne from the conference, give out loans through the mechanism of SAP's (structural adjustment programmes) with unaffordable repayments in order to asset strip countries as way of repaying the unaffordable loans.
SAP's remove capital controls of the in and outflow of money, dictate public spending, prioritize debt repayment and corporate welfare over infrastructure development and human welfare and demand supression of wages and restrictions on unions.
All this mainly started in Africa but spread elsewhere as neoliberals looked for new markets to explore.
In 2011, for every that creditor nations gave debt ridden countries around the world, the countries gave back in debt repayment.
The whole thing is skewed in favour financial institutions rather than actually helping countries. This is wrong imho.


Greece's predicament is by and large down to Greece. If you spend more than you earn, you have a problem.


 

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View robdave2k's Profile robdave2k Flag 02 Mar 16 1.31am Send a Private Message to robdave2k Add robdave2k as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

And your philosophy is the suffering of millions.

I'm sure a post on a football message board will help keep the Greek's warm at night.

Let's be honest, you post this crap here and call people out all the time as it makes you feel intelligent. You are as guilty as anyone of projecting your agenda and sometimes less is so very much more.

It's like those charity collectors you get in the doorways of supermarkets, everyone's cause is the most important. The fact is, and I don't really want to break this to you, is that life isn't fair and people are allowed to make up their own minds. That's democracy.

Oit if interest how much of your pension/pay rise would you be willing to give up to help, as you seem perfectly happy to throw everyone in the private sector to the wolves to show how righteous you are.

It really does get very boring after a while and any message you try and convey gets lost.

Ps I think the Government are b******s crucifying small businesses at the moment and I wouldn't vote for Corbyn as he would lead us into the abyss. So I'm pretty much middle of the road, but give it a bloody rest will you.

 

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