This (Cameron protest)
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In | RSS Feed
 leifandersonshair  Newport 13 Apr 16 12.31pm |
  |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
I don't know who first coined the phrase but "Taxation is legalised extortion". Successive governments try all sorts of methods to rake in the money in more inventive ways. That's why we have old houses with bricked up windows because some tax dodgers tried to avoid paying window tax between 1695 and 1701.
Careful, the Tories will steal that one. Gideon will be rubbing his hands together at raising a bit more cash he can use to give further tax breaks to the rich
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
  |
johnfirewall  13 Apr 16 12.32pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
It might be me, but why do councils have shares in companies. Shouldn't councils be funded entirely by taxation revenue, and not holding external investments? Any entity with such a turnover would have large cash reserves. There's a famous case of Hammersmith and Fulham getting involved in Interest Rate Swaps in the 80s. This was a gamble (sadly against the market) rather than a hedge against other less liquid investments. To be fair they have cash and it can't just sit in a bank earning 1%. You'd think they'd build houses, but they don't need to because private developers will, and they just take the council tax. I've no idea of the exact financing structures they employ, but I'm guessing the 'warchest' is a futher pool of funds which falls outside the other treasury arrangements. In short, I'm guessing they have sh1t loads of cash which isn't being used to subsidise services that simply see reduced funding due to government cuts. Edited by johnfirewall (13 Apr 2016 12.34pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| crystal balls The Garden of Earthly Delights 13 Apr 16 1.03pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stuk
The country hasn't lost the money. It made a profit and was returned here, to the Cameron's bank account. Think of it as an investment that went on holiday. Every single council, pension fund, charity/church and even us individuals put UK money into overseas funds, banks or investments. Edited by Stuk (12 Apr 2016 7.49pm) Well "the country" has lost revenue in the case of offshore funds. Yes, most investments have an element of international exposure, but the vast majority of these are made via UK based funds, which pay tax on dividend income and capital gains made within these funds. However, offshore funds levy no tax on either dividends or gains while the investments remain offshore, depriving "the country" or more accurately HMRC, of revenue. The only UK tax potentially payable would be Capital Gains Tax on the individual owner of the investment when the funds are repatriated. This can, perfectly legally at the moment, reduce or even eliminate any liability to tax on the offshore investment. If the investment were UK based it would have been liable to UK tax and would have provided a lower return to the investor. Edited by crystal balls (13 Apr 2016 1.04pm) Edited by crystal balls (13 Apr 2016 1.19pm)
I used to be immortal |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Apr 16 1.16pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by johnfirewall
Any entity with such a turnover would have large cash reserves. There's a famous case of Hammersmith and Fulham getting involved in Interest Rate Swaps in the 80s. This was a gamble (sadly against the market) rather than a hedge against other less liquid investments. To be fair they have cash and it can't just sit in a bank earning 1%. You'd think they'd build houses, but they don't need to because private developers will, and they just take the council tax. I've no idea of the exact financing structures they employ, but I'm guessing the 'warchest' is a futher pool of funds which falls outside the other treasury arrangements. In short, I'm guessing they have sh1t loads of cash which isn't being used to subsidise services that simply see reduced funding due to government cuts. Edited by johnfirewall (13 Apr 2016 12.34pm) That's what I figured, but then surely if they have a surplus, that should return to the taxpayer directly in the form of a rebate. I get that investing it can return a profit, but that profit is then surely going to end up reinvested... I notice that on the 'How your council tax' was spent brochure, that gets sent out each year its doesn't include 'buying shares in a multi-national corporation'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Apr 16 1.32pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That's what I figured, but then surely if they have a surplus, that should return to the taxpayer directly in the form of a rebate. I get that investing it can return a profit, but that profit is then surely going to end up reinvested... I notice that on the 'How your council tax' was spent brochure, that gets sent out each year its doesn't include 'buying shares in a multi-national corporation'.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Apr 16 1.59pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by nickgusset
Why not a stake in a hotel in Bromley, at least that makes some sense.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stuk Top half 13 Apr 16 2.24pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That's what I figured, but then surely if they have a surplus, that should return to the taxpayer directly in the form of a rebate. I get that investing it can return a profit, but that profit is then surely going to end up reinvested... I notice that on the 'How your council tax' was spent brochure, that gets sent out each year its doesn't include 'buying shares in a multi-national corporation'. I don't mind them investing it, but they all claimed they couldn't suffer cuts to their budgets while sitting on these millions of pounds in surplus they had invested. An awful lot of it in banks, so it was a as simple as withdrawing it to fill the hole, if you didn't want to make the cuts.
Optimistic as ever |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Apr 16 2.37pm |
|
|---|---|
|
That's my problem with the idea of investing it in the first place, that it becomes seen as a means of generating revenue, rather than covering necessities of the community and its functionality. Increasingly, I suspect, councils see such reserves as theirs rather than ours, and it becomes used to fund issues of the councils financial future, rather than being about fulfilment of required services. If they're banking 10% I want a reduction in my council tax, not them using it to fund profitability of corporate entities, to which by default of holding investments in, they have an bias towards.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| johnfirewall 13 Apr 16 2.37pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That's what I figured, but then surely if they have a surplus, that should return to the taxpayer directly in the form of a rebate. I get that investing it can return a profit, but that profit is then surely going to end up reinvested... I notice that on the 'How your council tax' was spent brochure, that gets sent out each year its doesn't include 'buying shares in a multi-national corporation'. Guessing that doesn't count as 'spent' as it's an asset but then if it's taken in tax that's particularly dodgy accounting, but these figures are only for the benefit of us mugs paying it. There's a government report here which addresses the risk associated with such investments, but not where the cash comes from or what else they could do with it. Edited by johnfirewall (13 Apr 2016 2.44pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Apr 16 2.45pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Its not like there isn't things local councils could actually do with the money 'left over'.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| johnfirewall 13 Apr 16 3.02pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Its not like there isn't things local councils could actually do with the money 'left over'. You know they'd only build a gold plated town hall or a statue of the mayor or some other vanity project rather than spend it on services.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Rudi Hedman Caterham 13 Apr 16 3.10pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Its not like there isn't things local councils could actually do with the money 'left over'. Like resurface an adequate road in March around the corner from a road in disrepair for years. They're good at that one. Nice and easy.
COYP |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / Register
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2023 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.