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SwalecliffeEagle Swalecliffe 11 Apr 16 9.44pm | |
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Originally posted by JHB
No it's an incredibly dangerous idea. Limiting school populations by screening the beliefs of parents is a very, very, slippery slope. You might like it when it only applies to religious beliefs but what happens if somebody decides to apply it to "dangerous" political beliefs which might just encompass yours? Or say we shouldn't limit the numbers of children of parents with criminal records? It's also completely wrong to hold children of a group accountable for the actions of a very few violent people. Should we hold the children of people who go to pubs accountable for the fact that some pissed up people cause serious violence on a Friday night? Ironically it is exactly this sort of divisive action that the religious extremists would like to see. I take your opening remarks as legitimate, I don't advocate setting precedents but I never knew the idea of sending your kid to school with children from other cultures would be such a traumatic experience for them. I think you went a touch far there. And accusing me of 'liking' such measures undermines you further. Edited by SwalecliffeEagle (11 Apr 2016 9.46pm)
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JHB London 11 Apr 16 9.47pm | |
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Originally posted by SwalecliffeEagle
I take your opening remarks as legitimate, I don't advocate setting precedents but I never knew the idea of sending your kid to school with children from other cultures would be such a traumatic experience for them. I think you went a touch far there. Where did I say that going to school with children of different cultures would be traumatic for anyone? I simply suggested that we should not decide school places for children by screening the beliefs of parents.
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SwalecliffeEagle Swalecliffe 11 Apr 16 9.53pm | |
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Originally posted by JHB
Where did I say that going to school with children of different cultures would be traumatic for anyone? I simply suggested that we should not decide school places for children by screening the beliefs of parents. Perhaps I misinterpreted, but I took the implication to be that such a measure would be somehow punitive on the children, whereas actually what I would argue is that perhaps it is worth exploring to prevent further division...which really exists...and will pose Muslim children a greater threat in the future. And though I say white children are increasingly tolerant, I do worry that there is a growing 'Muslim Question' in this country. I actually really feel for them, because it's only going one way. What would you propose then? Edited by SwalecliffeEagle (11 Apr 2016 9.56pm)
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JHB London 11 Apr 16 10.01pm | |
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Originally posted by SwalecliffeEagle
Perhaps I misinterpreted, but I took the implication to be that such a measure would be somehow punitive on the children, whereas actually what I would argue is that perhaps it is worth exploring to prevent further division...which really exists...and will pose Muslim children a greater threat in the future. I actually really feel for them, because it's only going one way. What would you propose then? Well it's a very difficult issue because I do agree with you that diversity is a good thing as it broadens children's perspectives and being in an echo chamber of the same ideas is very bad as it gives a narrow world view. I just think limiting places based on religious beliefs is very dangerous as it would set a precedent. Even if well intentioned it is hugely dangerous. It could also be punitive on some children. What happens if a kid can't get into a good local school because of such a quota? The very first thing that I would do is prevent the establishment of any state funded faith schools as that simply adds to the problem and creates divisions. Secondly I would ensure that schools do follow a clear curriculum including the scientific method and encourage children to learn and challenge ideas. That is why I an worried about the rush to academies and free schools. Edited by JHB (11 Apr 2016 10.02pm) Edited by JHB (11 Apr 2016 10.03pm) Edited by JHB (11 Apr 2016 10.03pm)
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SwalecliffeEagle Swalecliffe 11 Apr 16 10.04pm | |
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Originally posted by JHB
Well it's a very difficult issue because I do agree with you that diversity is a good thing as it broadens children's perspectives and being in an echo chamber of the same ideas is very bad as it gives a narrow world view. I just thing limiting places based on religious beliefs is very dangerous as it would set a precedent. Even if well intentioned it is hugely dangerous. The very first thing that I would do is prevent the establishment of any state funded faith schools as that simply adds to the problem and creates divisions. Secondly I would ensure that schools do follow a clear curriculum including the scientific method and encourage children to learn and challenge ideas. That is why I an worried about the rush to academies and free schools. They're sensible measures, but I just don't know if it's not touching around the edges a bit. My gut reaction to that guys suggestion was that it would be the most effective way of diversifying the influences in Muslim kids lives, because as I understand it many do live within closed-off communities which don't reach out. But it's a tricky one, I can't disagree with you there. I am pessimistic, though.
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JHB London 11 Apr 16 10.11pm | |
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Originally posted by SwalecliffeEagle
They're sensible measures, but I just don't know if it's not touching around the edges a bit. My gut reaction to that guys suggestion was that it would be the most effective way of diversifying the influences in Muslim kids lives, because as I understand it many do live within closed-off communities which don't reach out. But it's a tricky one, I can't disagree with you there. I am pessimistic, though. You and me both sadly.
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Hoof Hearted 14 Apr 16 11.25am | |
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So...... who watched it? I did and found it very enlightening... and scary! My conclusions having listened intently for a good hour is that there are a significant number of Muslims that never want to integrate with us and impose Sharia Law in their segregated communities. Worse still is that the youngest male Muslims interviewed were as "hardline" as the over 65's in their treatment of women, homosexuals and sympathy for terrorism. Clearly we are not winning the minds of British Muslims and getting them to accord with British moral values like the Hindu's, Sikhs and other religious groups have done quite willingly. There are 3 million Muslims living in Britain and this number is increasing at a faster rate than any other religious group. If we're not careful and don't address this problem, it won't be just Sharia Law in a few local communities! Worrying...
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johnfirewall 14 Apr 16 11.59am | |
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I stand by the left in not blaming the muslim population. I blame the lefties for telling them they don't need to denounce extremism. #YouAintNoMuslimBruv was probably the biggest act of solidarity, uniting Britain against the lunatics except the only person denounced was Cameron for using the quote. With regards to integration, I don't hear a peep out of those too liberal to want to encourage it for fear of forcing it, instead we only hear the government are at fault for ghettoisation or worse in their eyes, gentrification. Edited by johnfirewall (14 Apr 2016 12.05pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Apr 16 12.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
So...... who watched it? I did and found it very enlightening... and scary! My conclusions having listened intently for a good hour is that there are a significant number of Muslims that never want to integrate with us and impose Sharia Law in their segregated communities. Worse still is that the youngest male Muslims interviewed were as "hardline" as the over 65's in their treatment of women, homosexuals and sympathy for terrorism. There are 3 million Muslims living in Britain and this number is increasing at a faster rate than any other religious group. If we're not careful and don't address this problem, it won't be just Sharia Law in a few local communities! Worrying... Why would anyone be surprised by that? Governments have allowed masses of people from an alien culture to come to Britain in a very short space of time. An insane policy driven by greed.
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Alexi_the_Eagle Newton-le-Willows 14 Apr 16 12.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
So...... who watched it? I did and found it very enlightening... and scary! My conclusions having listened intently for a good hour is that there are a significant number of Muslims that never want to integrate with us and impose Sharia Law in their segregated communities. Worse still is that the youngest male Muslims interviewed were as "hardline" as the over 65's in their treatment of women, homosexuals and sympathy for terrorism. Clearly we are not winning the minds of British Muslims and getting them to accord with British moral values[ like the Hindu's, Sikhs and other religious groups have done quite willingly. There are 3 million Muslims living in Britain and this number is increasing at a faster rate than any other religious group. If we're not careful and don't address this problem, it won't be just Sharia Law in a few local communities! Worrying... At least the Hindus, Sikhs and other religious groups want to integrate. We shouldn't bend over backwards to let a siginficant bunch of p***ed off Muslims demand that homosexuality be banned and that their primitive law be introduced and allowed to fester in certain communities in the country. It is worrying indeed.
"Look at that. Accident blackspot? These aren't accidents! They're throwing themselves into the road gladly! Throwing themselves into the road to escape all this hideousness!" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Apr 16 12.35pm | |
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I think it works as an approach if rather than focusing on one religious group, you include all religious groups. There are plenty of schools with a predominantly Catholic or Protestant bias. Of course, I'd generally go one step further and remove religion from schools entirely, even private schools.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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leifandersonshair Newport 14 Apr 16 12.44pm | |
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I want to see a follow up series- 'What British Working Class White Men Think." I suspect you will get some equally unsavoury and nasty views. Ironically, they'd probably agree with extremist views on homosexuality, amongst other things! Maybe that's the way to seek common ground? I watched it- typically scaremongering, but somewhat interesting. Essentially, there are more than a few nutjobs in Muslim communities (or at least in the sample...). So... just like every other demographic in the UK then! I'm sure the EU Out camp will make full use of it!
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