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March 29 2024 3.27pm

The Hillsborough Verdict

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View The Sash's Profile The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 27 Apr 16 8.20am Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Originally posted by kevlee

I cant believe there are people on here still blaming the fans. What will it take?
Duckenfield; Thatcher; The Sun; The Police Federation. Lying scum the lot of them. Your in good company.

I think over the years anyone who's dare to suggest that some LFC fans may have had a part to play in this, however small, are seen as siding with the obvious mis-handling, error strewn policing, the odious s*** McKenzie or Thatchers use of this politically and somehow insinuating that 96 people contributed to their own deaths - far from it.


To suggest though that this was apparently the only 'ticketed' game where Liverpool didn't have a significant number of fans turn up without tickets and try to gain entry in some way shape or form is incredible in the extreme.

It was a widespread facet of 80's football and certainly something that Liverpool, amongst others, had form in. I know that Liverpool fans tried to gain entry to the Forest end that day from a Forest fan who was there.

Now what that had as a contributory factor is impossible to gauge - did it lead to police making incorrect decisions to open gates just to deal with the larger than expected numbers all trying to get in ? Did it colour the attitude to policing on that day so its was far more focused around 'hooliganism' than safety, (which was pretty much the default police position across every force in the country anyway) ?

All said and done it really doesn't matter, its a minor piece of this.

What matters is that 96 people died from a catalogue of events, decisions and issues which started when a ground that should never have hosted the game was selected - it shows the level football fans were treated and how they where thought of that it didn't even have a safety certificate

There are people who should be brought to account for themselves either legally or simply through media scrutiny - don't hold your breath though - they wont be.


Edited by The Sash (27 Apr 2016 9.10am)

Edited by The Sash (27 Apr 2016 9.13am)

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 27 Apr 16 9.12am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

What i didn't realise until yesterday is that the inquest knew how many fans were on the terraces via clicked turnstiles just before the gates were opened. There was room for 10,000 and just 5,800 were on it - i.e had tickets - so another 4,000 at least were outside just before kick off for an all-ticket affair in that tight bottleneck.

That totally dissolves any culpability at all on ticketless fans in my book. And there would have been hundreds of them there.

Here's what Duckenfield has had to say most recently:

[Link]

"I think it's fair to say that it is arguably one of the biggest regrets of my life"

'One' of the biggest regrets? What else have you fvcked up to that level then?

The 'man' is a fvcking disgrace and I hope he is haunted by this until his dying day.

Edited by Kermit8 (27 Apr 2016 9.13am)

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View The Sash's Profile The Sash Flag Now residing in Epsom - How Posh 27 Apr 16 9.17am Send a Private Message to The Sash Add The Sash as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

What i didn't realise until yesterday is that the inquest knew how many fans were on the terraces via clicked turnstiles just before the gates were opened. There was room for 10,000 and just 5,800 were on it - i.e had tickets - so another 4,000 at least were outside just before kick off for an all-ticket affair in that tight bottleneck.

That totally dissolves any culpability at all on ticketless fans in my book. And there would have been hundreds of them there.

Here's what Duckenfield has had to say most recently:

[Link]

"I think it's fair to say that it is arguably one of the biggest regrets of my life"

'One' of the biggest regrets? What else have you fvcked up to that level then?

The 'man' is a fvcking disgrace and I hope he is haunted by this until his dying day.

Edited by Kermit8 (27 Apr 2016 9.13am)

One ???? Christ - what else has he done - smash prostitutes with hammers ? Rape puppies in front of nursery school children ?

To be fair slightly to Duckenfield, I can sympathise that he is in a position that day where he has to make hard decisions in dynamic circumstances and under pressure and even as an experienced senior Policeman, he is human and humans f*** up - the issue I personally have with him is his obvious feeding of disinformation and downright lies in the aftermath....


Edited by The Sash (27 Apr 2016 9.20am)

 


As far as the rules go, it's a website not a democracy - Hambo 3/6/2014

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 27 Apr 16 9.24am Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by The Sash

One ???? Christ - what else has he done - smash prostitutes with hammers ? Rape puppies in front of nursery school children ?

To be fair slightly to Duckenfield, I can sympathise that he is in a position that day where he has to make hard decisions in dynamic circumstances and under pressure and even as an experienced senior Policeman, he is human and humans f*** up - the issue I personally have with him is his obvious feeding of disinformation and downright lies in the aftermath....

My sentiments exactly. Whatever went wrong on the day, people made judgement calls to the best of their ability. The fact that they were found wanting is one thing (and raises questions about the who is responsible, the individual or the organisations)but to lie like they have since is unforgivable.


Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (27 Apr 2016 9.25am)

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Apr 16 9.59am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by The Sash

One ???? Christ - what else has he done - smash prostitutes with hammers ? Rape puppies in front of nursery school children ?

To be fair slightly to Duckenfield, I can sympathise that he is in a position that day where he has to make hard decisions in dynamic circumstances and under pressure and even as an experienced senior Policeman, he is human and humans f*** up - the issue I personally have with him is his obvious feeding of disinformation and downright lies in the aftermath....

Agree.

 


COYP

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View hibbystu's Profile hibbystu Flag tadworth 27 Apr 16 10.05am Send a Private Message to hibbystu Add hibbystu as a friend

I am so glad that it has been proved in a court of law, that no one was pissed and everyone had a valid ticket

 


I support Scotland, Hibs and the Palace, no glory hunters here!!!!!!

PLEASE SIR, CAN I HAVE A PIE!!

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Apr 16 10.05am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by The Sash

I think over the years anyone who's dare to suggest that some LFC fans may have had a part to play in this, however small, are seen as siding with the obvious mis-handling, error strewn policing, the odious s*** McKenzie or Thatchers use of this politically and somehow insinuating that 96 people contributed to their own deaths - far from it.


To suggest though that this was apparently the only 'ticketed' game where Liverpool didn't have a significant number of fans turn up without tickets and try to gain entry in some way shape or form is incredible in the extreme.

It was a widespread facet of 80's football and certainly something that Liverpool, amongst others, had form in. I know that Liverpool fans tried to gain entry to the Forest end that day from a Forest fan who was there.

Now what that had as a contributory factor is impossible to gauge - did it lead to police making incorrect decisions to open gates just to deal with the larger than expected numbers all trying to get in ? Did it colour the attitude to policing on that day so its was far more focused around 'hooliganism' than safety, (which was pretty much the default police position across every force in the country anyway) ?

All said and done it really doesn't matter, its a minor piece of this.

What matters is that 96 people died from a catalogue of events, decisions and issues which started when a ground that should never have hosted the game was selected - it shows the level football fans were treated and how they where thought of that it didn't even have a safety certificate

There are people who should be brought to account for themselves either legally or simply through media scrutiny - don't hold your breath though - they wont be.

I agree with the ticketless issue. It may or may not have contributed to what happened but if it did it was certainly not the only reason and they should be able to deal with it as it was happening every season for 2,3,4 semis and replays and cup finals and replays for that matter. Reduce capacity, don't open the gates, have enough turnstyles open, have stewards directing people. If there is a crush outside there is at least space at the back, although difficult to instruct. In a pen there is nowhere. Of course it shouldn't get to a crush anyway. Delay KO, stagger people somehow before that tight area.

I think this did add to how the Police image of every football fan spread...

'Did it (ticketless fans) colour the attitude to policing on that day so its was far more focused around 'hooliganism' than safety, (which was pretty much the default police position across every force in the country anyway)'

 


COYP

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 27 Apr 16 10.09am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Times were different. The police were Thatcher's blue-eyed boot boys and they thought they could get away with murder back then. Or in this case manslaughter. The Tories would never ever go against the police or their right-wing media buddies but the problems of corruption started well before Maggie turned up tbf. Surrey Police and the Guildford Four back in the mid-seventies a case in point.

 


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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 27 Apr 16 10.16am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by The Sash

One ???? Christ - what else has he done - smash prostitutes with hammers ? Rape puppies in front of nursery school children ?

To be fair slightly to Duckenfield, I can sympathise that he is in a position that day where he has to make hard decisions in dynamic circumstances and under pressure and even as an experienced senior Policeman, he is human and humans f*** up - the issue I personally have with him is his obvious feeding of disinformation and downright lies in the aftermath....


Edited by The Sash (27 Apr 2016 9.20am)

What still is astounding even taking into account the human error element is how close the police viewing box with Duckenfield in it was to the Leppings Lane end. Even Stevie Wonder could have seen that the end pens were just over half full whilst the middle ones were rammed at around 2.45.

Ralph Wiggum could have done a better job.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View Rudi Hedman's Profile Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 27 Apr 16 10.17am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by The Sash

We had a similar experience at WHL in the cup which for anyone who was there was not a good experience - pens full to absolute bursting point before the police finally saw something wasn't right and opened up another to relieve the crushing - for anyone attending games in the 80's, Hillsborough has a feel of 'there but for the grace of god' about it.


The season before 1989 and in the league game between Spurs v Liverpool, Liverpool didn't have access to the pen next to Spurs in The Shelf. When it was opened due to overcrowding no doubt it was apparently seen as a 'come on then', which again makes these kinds of decisions difficult, but would be easier if there were enough stewards or Police they had in those days there in the gaps between pens before. No violence happened. LFC fans must've had a lot of experience with big games and tight terraces. Not a lot most of them coud do about it.

With regards to us, it could have happened to us or anyone with only ticket holding fans if in the wrong place and a catalogue of errors happened in quick succession. What if we playing our semi with terraces and small pens rather than the large open Holte End? vs Oldham at SWFC or if we had a semi at Spurs like Wimbledon did? It could've happened with just turning up within minutes of KO due to legal drinking and holding legit tickets to the match.

 


COYP

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View hibbystu's Profile hibbystu Flag tadworth 27 Apr 16 10.19am Send a Private Message to hibbystu Add hibbystu as a friend

I am so glad that it has been proved in a court of law, that no one was pissed and everyone had a valid ticket

 


I support Scotland, Hibs and the Palace, no glory hunters here!!!!!!

PLEASE SIR, CAN I HAVE A PIE!!

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Hoof Hearted 27 Apr 16 10.25am

Originally posted by hibbystu

I am so glad that it has been proved in a court of law, that no one was pissed and everyone had a valid ticket

But they do say the law is an ass Stu!

Sadly, because of the previous cover ups by police, government etc and putting ALL the blame on the fans, no one is even allowed to suggest that even one person from Liverpool had a schooner of sherry that day and wasn't holding a valid ticket.

Even the choice of a predominately female jury that would concur with this ridiculous notion was arranged.

Anyhow..... all our lives are a lot safer today as a result of the lessons learned from that awful tragedy.

I think there should be prosecutions for those people that arranged the cover up and the lies, but as for prosecuting Duckenfield? He already looks a broken man to me.

 

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