Nicola Sturgeon

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Mapletree Croydon 27 Jun 16 9.27am
Originally posted by matt_himself I think this could be the end of Sturgeon. She will be under intense pressure to deliver a second referendum by her party yet she knows that the path to independence in this instance is very complicated. Not all EU countries will let Scotland in because of calls for independence in their own countries, the currency issue is very complicated now and there was, despite what she says about the vote in Scotland, a considerable and vocal Brexit splinter group in the SNP. Failure to deliver another referendum will force her out of the leadership and the SNP could split in two. This Brexit vote is great for those of us who detest the careerist politican. This is better, I can find things to disagree with you about again Matt. Can't see this damaging Sturgeon, to me this situation is full of opportunity for her. And it certainly reinforces the general Scottish view that their outlook is different from England and Wales. Don't forget, the EU accepted Slovakia. I know times were different then but there is precedent. It remains to be seen whether there is a path for Scotland not to leave and rejoin though.
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Mapletree

Croydon 27 Jun 16 9.27am

Originally posted by matt_himself

I think this could be the end of Sturgeon.

She will be under intense pressure to deliver a second referendum by her party yet she knows that the path to independence in this instance is very complicated.

Not all EU countries will let Scotland in because of calls for independence in their own countries, the currency issue is very complicated now and there was, despite what she says about the vote in Scotland, a considerable and vocal Brexit splinter group in the SNP.

Failure to deliver another referendum will force her out of the leadership and the SNP could split in two.

This Brexit vote is great for those of us who detest the careerist politican.

This is better, I can find things to disagree with you about again Matt.

Can't see this damaging Sturgeon, to me this situation is full of opportunity for her. And it certainly reinforces the general Scottish view that their outlook is different from England and Wales.

Don't forget, the EU accepted Slovakia. I know times were different then but there is precedent. It remains to be seen whether there is a path for Scotland not to leave and rejoin though.

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matt_himself Matataland 27 Jun 16 9.38am
Originally posted by Mapletree This is better, I can find things to disagree with you about again Matt. Can't see this damaging Sturgeon, to me this situation is full of opportunity for her. And it certainly reinforces the general Scottish view that their outlook is different from England and Wales. Don't forget, the EU accepted Slovakia. I know times were different then but there is precedent. It remains to be seen whether there is a path for Scotland not to leave and rejoin though. Maple, this is very different from previous referendum. Do you honestly think any leader could persuade a country to accept the Euro at the moment? She is going to be under huge pressure to deliver a second referendum and I think she knows that is a very tall order at the moment. She will wait until a deal is done between the UK and the EU before calling it but that may be too late for the SNP hardliners. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 27 Jun 16 9.38am

Originally posted by Mapletree

This is better, I can find things to disagree with you about again Matt.

Can't see this damaging Sturgeon, to me this situation is full of opportunity for her. And it certainly reinforces the general Scottish view that their outlook is different from England and Wales.

Don't forget, the EU accepted Slovakia. I know times were different then but there is precedent. It remains to be seen whether there is a path for Scotland not to leave and rejoin though.

Maple, this is very different from previous referendum.

Do you honestly think any leader could persuade a country to accept the Euro at the moment?

She is going to be under huge pressure to deliver a second referendum and I think she knows that is a very tall order at the moment.

She will wait until a deal is done between the UK and the EU before calling it but that may be too late for the SNP hardliners.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Willo Online South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jun 16 10.01am
So the SNP want to leave the UK but to keep the UK currency ? The Government ruled this out during the Scottish 2014 referendum. Good luck with the Euro, Scotland !
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Willo Online

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jun 16 10.01am

So the SNP want to leave the UK but to keep the UK currency ?
The Government ruled this out during the Scottish 2014 referendum.
Good luck with the Euro, Scotland !

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 27 Jun 16 10.04am
Sturgeon wanted Scotland to have independence with a big helping hand from the rest of the UK. She also now thinks that Scotland can stay in the EU on it's own. As someone said yesterday, a reverse Greenland but it just isn't possible. I think one of two things have happened, either she has opened her mouth before thinking or is spouting off knowing that it can't happen. Of course, someone could always call her bluff. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 27 Jun 16 10.04am

Sturgeon wanted Scotland to have independence with a big helping hand from the rest of the UK.

She also now thinks that Scotland can stay in the EU on it's own. As someone said yesterday, a reverse Greenland but it just isn't possible.

I think one of two things have happened, either she has opened her mouth before thinking or is spouting off knowing that it can't happen.

Of course, someone could always call her bluff.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 10.04am
The fact that the recent poll showed such a narrow lead - even after the EU ref - suggests that winning a second independence referendum will be a significant challenge for Sturgeon. And she knows she can't survive losing it. I agree though. She is stuck a little as many within her party will feel she should be pushing for it now. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 27 Jun 16 10.04am

The fact that the recent poll showed such a narrow lead - even after the EU ref - suggests that winning a second independence referendum will be a significant challenge for Sturgeon. And she knows she can't survive losing it.

I agree though. She is stuck a little as many within her party will feel she should be pushing for it now.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Mapletree Croydon 27 Jun 16 10.05am
Originally posted by Willo So the SNP want to leave the UK but to keep the UK currency ? The Government ruled this out during the Scottish 2014 referendum. Good luck with the Euro, Scotland ! As they have three banks that can print it and we have one, they own three quarters of the Pound
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Mapletree

Croydon 27 Jun 16 10.05am

Originally posted by Willo

So the SNP want to leave the UK but to keep the UK currency ?
The Government ruled this out during the Scottish 2014 referendum.
Good luck with the Euro, Scotland !

As they have three banks that can print it and we have one, they own three quarters of the Pound

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Willo Online South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jun 16 10.08am
Originally posted by OknotOK The fact that the recent poll showed such a narrow lead - even after the EU ref - suggests that winning a second independence referendum will be a significant challenge for Sturgeon. And she knows she can't survive losing it. I agree though. She is stuck a little as many within her party will feel she should be pushing for it now. Sturgeon is probably the main person pushing for it. Campaigned for "Remain" but secretly wanting a "Brexit" as it gave her the opportunity to push for another referendum which she clearly feels she can win.
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Willo Online

South coast - west of Brighton. 27 Jun 16 10.08am

Originally posted by OknotOK

I agree though. She is stuck a little as many within her party will feel she should be pushing for it now.

Sturgeon is probably the main person pushing for it.
Campaigned for "Remain" but secretly wanting a "Brexit" as it gave her the opportunity to push for another referendum which she clearly feels she can win.

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Old Time Eagle Sunny Sussex 27 Jun 16 10.11am
Despite her wanting to leave the UK.........Still would (from behind). Invited to SP after Xmas 1969 by new stepfather and his best mate. Freezing cold and lost 5-1. Been a fan ever since!!!!
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Old Time Eagle

Sunny Sussex 27 Jun 16 10.11am

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Despite her wanting to leave the UK.........Still would (from behind).

Invited to SP after Xmas 1969 by new stepfather and his best mate. Freezing cold and lost 5-1. Been a fan ever since!!!!

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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jun 16 11.06am
Originally posted by matt_himself I think this could be the end of Sturgeon. She will be under intense pressure to deliver a second referendum by her party yet she knows that the path to independence in this instance is very complicated. Not all EU countries will let Scotland in because of calls for independence in their own countries, the currency issue is very complicated now and there was, despite what she says about the vote in Scotland, a considerable and vocal Brexit splinter group in the SNP. Failure to deliver another referendum will force her out of the leadership and the SNP could split in two. This Brexit vote is great for those of us who detest the careerist politican. Possibly, but I think that the more that the UK resist a second referendum the more support the SNP will garner, and of course a collapse of the SNP in Scotland would be great for Labour. Thing is, I think she's right. This is a massive change in the UK, and one that whole heartedly was rejected by Scottish members of the UK. Like any good appeal its kind of the basis 'for a retrial' at some point, given that knowledge of an exit, could very well have resulted in a different outcome on Independence. Also, it seems a bit weird that so many people who were pro-Independence from Europe, would be against allowing the Scots to make that decision for themselves. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Jun 16 11.06am

Originally posted by matt_himself

I think this could be the end of Sturgeon.

She will be under intense pressure to deliver a second referendum by her party yet she knows that the path to independence in this instance is very complicated.

Failure to deliver another referendum will force her out of the leadership and the SNP could split in two.

This Brexit vote is great for those of us who detest the careerist politican.

Possibly, but I think that the more that the UK resist a second referendum the more support the SNP will garner, and of course a collapse of the SNP in Scotland would be great for Labour.

Thing is, I think she's right. This is a massive change in the UK, and one that whole heartedly was rejected by Scottish members of the UK. Like any good appeal its kind of the basis 'for a retrial' at some point, given that knowledge of an exit, could very well have resulted in a different outcome on Independence.

Also, it seems a bit weird that so many people who were pro-Independence from Europe, would be against allowing the Scots to make that decision for themselves.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Jun 16 11.10am
The idea compromise is to sufficiently devolve Scotland that it can remain in the EU, if they will have them. Its pretty clear from the referendum that Scotland wants to remain in the EU. It seems a bit undemocratic not to allow them to follow such a decision or to have a second referendum on the subject. My concern is more about a referendum on a united Ireland. That will, in my opinion, stir a hornets nest, if successful. No way the UDA, UVF et al will accept it, and I'd expect to see spiralling violence and a return to the troubles. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 27 Jun 16 11.10am

The idea compromise is to sufficiently devolve Scotland that it can remain in the EU, if they will have them.

Its pretty clear from the referendum that Scotland wants to remain in the EU. It seems a bit undemocratic not to allow them to follow such a decision or to have a second referendum on the subject.

My concern is more about a referendum on a united Ireland. That will, in my opinion, stir a hornets nest, if successful. No way the UDA, UVF et al will accept it, and I'd expect to see spiralling violence and a return to the troubles.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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fish mitten Chelmsford 27 Jun 16 11.13am
Seems like a win-win situation. Let Scotland have a 2nd referendum. If they vote to stay in the UK surely Sturgeon will have to fall on her sword and resign. Also giving the Scots no reason for another referendum for decades. If they leave, well Scotland will have to accept the Euro and we make it plain that all funding from England and Wales will stop immediately. You can now be funded from the EU.
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fish mitten

Chelmsford 27 Jun 16 11.13am

Seems like a win-win situation.

Let Scotland have a 2nd referendum. If they vote to stay in the UK surely Sturgeon will have to fall on her sword and resign. Also giving the Scots no reason for another referendum for decades.

If they leave, well Scotland will have to accept the Euro and we make it plain that all funding from England and Wales will stop immediately. You can now be funded from the EU.

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becky over the moon 27 Jun 16 11.19am
She will have to be very, very certain that the EU will accept Scotland, which they could only do in principle whilst it is still part of the UK. You might just end up with the scenario where Scotland thinks they will be accepted, have their referendum, become independent and then find that when they formally apply, one country veto's their application and leaves them in a total and impassable limbo. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 27 Jun 16 11.19am

She will have to be very, very certain that the EU will accept Scotland, which they could only do in principle whilst it is still part of the UK.

You might just end up with the scenario where Scotland thinks they will be accepted, have their referendum, become independent and then find that when they formally apply, one country veto's their application and leaves them in a total and impassable limbo.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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