What a load of crap you write.

I want to continue to live in a secular country. I think it makes sense to support that concept.

If an incoming person is fine with this country having separation of church and state and doesn't inflict oppression and separatism upon people within their influence then I'm fine with them.....That goes with any religion.

In that sense their religion is irrelevant to me. However, If you think it's sensible to blindly ignore the increase of religious people who would prefer significant structural change in the country then really debate with people like you is pointless.

People like you with your sneering attitude with its implicit insinuations of racism are responsible for the climate of non-intervention and fear from otherwise good people which allows that internal oppression and separatism to exist within minority cultures without significant or useful challenge.

Essentially you are the problem just as much as the oppressors are.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jul 2016 5.25pm)

If you don't understand the problem of oppression within Islamic communities then you really should investigate the issue. In the last year I've worked a lot with Muslims and I've been privy to eye opening situations. Quite a few Muslims face two ways....a face for working within the typical British workplace and another very socially conservative face for home. Sometimes the friction between the two is very unhealthy.

Anyway looking at repression within Islamic communities may result in you debating the issues without recourse to 'tongue in cheek' insinuations perhaps.

If you read my posts then you'd say that I've never said I'd ban all Muslims whether it was practicable or not. I've already put down my criteria and plenty of Muslims would pass it and be welcome.

How can secularism be protected? Ideas on the practical methods to protect the future of secularism would be an interesting thread.

Many think the struggle over the enlightenment is over..It was in the traditional west...over hundreds of years its European concepts and ideals have been built upon and enabled the marvel that modern life provides.

People forget that Islamic countries didn't have the enlightenment....As has been famously said, nothing important in Arabic has been written for five hundred years. The mindset of the traditional middle east is of a different order. It has made use of western technologies and selected advancements without being apart of its ethos....indeed rejecting many social advancements that we consider even basic here.

I will add though that this is obviously a generalization and that many people break free of the constraints and limitations that restrictive cultures and regimes push upon them. They want something else.

These people are welcome.....I just don't care for the rest.

Many think the struggle over the enlightenment is over..It was in the traditional west...over hundreds of years its European concepts and ideals have been built upon and enabled the marvel that modern life provides.

People forget that Islamic countries didn't have the enlightenment....As has been famously said, nothing important in Arabic has been written for five hundred years. The mindset of the traditional middle east is of a different order. It has made use of western technologies and selected advancements without being apart of its ethos....indeed rejecting many social advancements that we consider even basic here.

I will add though that this is obviously a generalization and that many people break free of the constraints and limitations that restrictive cultures and regimes push upon them. They want something else.

These people are welcome.....I just don't care for the rest.

absolutely Jamie, however when was the last time a sandal wearing God botherer, blew himself to bits taking women and children with him, stabbed a young un and his mum for wearing swim wear, went on the rampage killing loads of people with a gun on a night out, axed people to death on train.

Your constant reference to the Christian world is about 200 years out of date. Also the IRA and their bombing campaign against mainland UK was not entirely based on religion, true enough the two sides were different brands of sky monkey, however the main reason was the occupation of Ireland by the English.

religion as always has become the excuse.

Well here's a few somewhat more recent than 1816...

1. The Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church Shooting.Jim David Adkisson, a devout Christian and anti-abortion right-winger, walked into a Knoxville church on July 27th, 2008, and began firing a shotgun at children who were performing Annie Jr. He killed two and wounded seven, targeting “the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country.”

2. The Campaign of Terror Against Abortion Doctors.In 1993, Dr. Richard Gunn was shot dead by an anti-abortion protester. In 1994, Drs. John Britton and James Barrett were shot to death by Reverend Paul Jennings. In 1998, Dr. Barnett Sleipan was shot dead in his home by a Christian terrorist. In 2009, Dr. George Tiller was shot by Scott Roeder in a church. According to the National Abortion Federation, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, 13 wounded, 100 butyric acid attacks, 373 physical invasions, 41 bombings, 655 anthrax threats, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers since 1977.

3. The 1995 Oklahoma City Bombings.Timothy McVeigh, America’s most notorious domestic terrorist, was obsessed with the Seventh-Day Aventist splinter group known as the Branch Davidians, who resisted an ATF raid on their citadel at Mount Carmel in 1993. He travelled to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege and heavily supported the religious extremists within it. Two years later, he detonated a fertilizer bomb at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing a hundred and sixty-eight people, including nineteen children, and wounded 648 others.

4. The Massacre At Zion Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston, S.C.On 17 June 2015, a man rose from a pew in the historically black Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, SC, and opened fire with a .45 caliber pistol, killing nine worshipers, including pastor and State Senator Clementa Pickiney. The shooter has been photographed wearing patches representing the racist apartheid regimes in Southwest Africa, had a Confederate license plate on his vehicle. All signs points to this being a hate crime- not only is it the oldest black church in the South, it was a symbol of resistance against slavery, and a survivor reported that the shooter yelled ‘I have to do it. You rape our women and you’re taking over our country. And you have to go.” Roof was a member of a local Lutheran church

Edited by legaleagle (25 Jul 2016 10.58pm)