having your cake and eating it
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jamiemartin721  Reading 27 Oct 16 4.09pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Why are gayers so f**king touchy about literally everything. You like dick we get it. now shut up and if you don't want to be treated differently, come and join the rest of the down trowden and stop being so fcking precious about everything. Are they though. His rights were denied, he goes to court, wins, and then wins the appeal. It doesn't really seem to be gay people that are making a big issue about it. I think there are a lot more people being 'precious' about homosexuals having the same rights as other people, than there are homosexuals demanding special privilege.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 27 Oct 16 4.15pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Are they though. His rights were denied, he goes to court, wins, and then wins the appeal. It doesn't really seem to be gay people that are making a big issue about it. I think there are a lot more people being 'precious' about homosexuals having the same rights as other people, than there are homosexuals demanding special privilege. I was going to say something about you obviously have never been to gay bar, but we all know that would be a lie. You know what I mean jamie, I've got gay mates in the Army and fcuk me (not literally) do they go on and on about it. It's like they are some kind of special off shoot of the human race that are entitled to bitch an moan about everything. Look I agree, that the cake owner was being a dick, but I also see a slippery slope of enforcement on business to accommodate a customer base they don't want to encourage. What happended to free choice, you can't just cherry pick which choices are free and which are not.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 4.28pm |
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Originally posted by npn
That's a fairly hazy distinction in semantics, but I don't want to get caught up in it. The fact that the law does not allow you to marry over there, by this argument, makes the law itself at odds with this very same legislation, surely? Why are there not mass lawsuits against the government for discrimination? No, because the Discrimination Act is about discrimination on issues of sexuality, gender, race and religion, and the owners discriminated on a basis of sexuality and then claimed they were protected by religious freedom of expression - However that doesn't apply to business responsibilities. As such, individual rights to freedom of expression and speech aren't covered, as the owners individual rights were not involved or at least did not trump legislation around business trading laws. Originally posted by npn
I've just had a very quick look back at the original case, BTW, and it doesn't say who took the order, only that it was declined 48 hours later. I can't assert either way, but it also says they employ 80 people, so that may make it less likely that the order was taken by an owner (or not) Does it matter who took the order. Owner or the junior trainee, either way it was against the law to deny service on the basis of sexuality. The only issue really around this is whether sexuality only applies to individuals, or to wider ideas of sexuality. If you refused someone service because you thought they looked gay, or the service was related to gay issues, it doesn't matter - its still discrimination. The only exceptions I think are Religious organisations (under the same law they we sued over) and where necessity that benefits the client's interests. Its not reasonable for a bakery to refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation. Any more than it is on race, religious or gender grounds.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 4.32pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
I was going to say something about you obviously have never been to gay bar, but we all know that would be a lie. You know what I mean jamie, I've got gay mates in the Army and fcuk me (not literally) do they go on and on about it. It's like they are some kind of special off shoot of the human race that are entitled to bitch an moan about everything. Look I agree, that the cake owner was being a dick, but I also see a slippery slope of enforcement on business to accommodate a customer base they don't want to encourage. What happended to free choice, you can't just cherry pick which choices are free and which are not. Ha, quite right, I've been to gay bars and clubs on a number of occasions (usually with gay friends). You're right of course, some people do f**king bang on about it all the f**king time. I think its the novelty. I know straight people who bang on and on about their sex lives and conquests. Boring f**kers, the lot of them. Free choice applies to individuals, not to businesses, they accountable to the law. As an individual, you have free speech and expression.
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| carlonoil Naples 27 Oct 16 4.44pm |
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The answer to all this is for businesses to have 'flexible' price lists. A straightforward price most of the time, with rapidly escalating prices for less straightforward orders. These higher prices would reflect the risk taken by a bakery when it is forced, for example, to make a cake critical of Islam - to cover costs of the bakery being burnt down, bakers beheaded etc.
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| blackpalacefan 27 Oct 16 4.52pm |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Why are gayers so f**king touchy about literally everything. You like dick we get it. now shut up and if you don't want to be treated differently, come and join the rest of the down trowden and stop being so fcking precious about everything. It was two people complaining about a cake. I'm sure they and your army mates in no way represent every gay person ever to exist. Let's move beyond 'they're all the same' type arguments as they've never helped anyone. Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Oct 2016 4.53pm)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 4.53pm |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
It was two people complaining about a cake. I'm sure they in no way represent every gay person ever to exist. Let's move beyond 'they're all the same' type arguments as they've never helped anyone. Its also not gay people who seem to be constantly going on and one about it.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 4.55pm |
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Originally posted by carlonoil
The answer to all this is for businesses to have 'flexible' price lists. A straightforward price most of the time, with rapidly escalating prices for less straightforward orders. These higher prices would reflect the risk taken by a bakery when it is forced, for example, to make a cake critical of Islam - to cover costs of the bakery being burnt down, bakers beheaded etc.
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Although I'd imagine that Muslim sectarianism isn't really the real religious problem group in Northern Ireland.| blackpalacefan 27 Oct 16 5.00pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Its also not gay people who seem to be constantly going on and one about it. True. Often quite the opposite.
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| carlonoil Naples 27 Oct 16 5.01pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
That's a good point actually. Should Ashers be forced to bake a cake with "God bless the IRA" on it? Presumably, if they refused, they would be denying the guy in the balaclava who orders it his human rights? I expect the courts would accept that him kneecapping the baker was justified outrage too?
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Oct 16 5.06pm |
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Originally posted by carlonoil
That's a good point actually. Should Ashers be forced to bake a cake with "God bless the IRA" on it? Presumably, if they refused, they would be denying the guy in the balaclava who orders it his human rights? I expect the courts would accept that him kneecapping the baker was justified outrage too?
Although, the IRA are a criminal organisation, so they'd have been legally ok with not printing it, other than having to walk home without knee caps... Its kind of odd, when you think about it, to have a story of religious differences in Northern Ireland that has been resolved by the Courts, without someone getting a life sentence.
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| Stuk Top half 27 Oct 16 5.20pm |
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They should've just got the order wrong and then gave them a refund when the customer discovered it. If asked to do it again, they could've just said yeah but we've got a long wait time at the moment. The trouble with Christians is they're too honest, unless it's about fiddling kids.
Optimistic as ever |
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