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April 24 2024 3.52pm

having your cake and eating it

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View Lakeview's Profile Lakeview Flag Lincoln 27 Oct 16 6.19pm Send a Private Message to Lakeview Add Lakeview as a friend

Regarding who goes on and on about sexuality, don't you think Sandi Toksvig is a "have I mentioned I'm a lesbian today?"-individual- every interview, every chance she brings it up as if it's only sexuality that defines her as a person; it's just one aspect of who we are, and Stephen Fry, on awards shows, goes on and on about it in a way that you just don't hear from heterosexual celebrities these days. I get the impression that some T.V gays are more likely to make lewd remarks than straight celebrities these days. Similarly, there are more remarks on shows like "Strictly", "Poldark" etc about the men's shirt unbuttoned-looks than comments about the women. We've moved from the grimy mens' sexist remarks of 60s & 70s sitcoms to a new and also unpleasant set of remarks from some women & gays today.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 27 Oct 16 7.11pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

As ever the problem is that one persons rights often conflicts with someones else's.
The law is clear on discrimination but the owners of this cake shop should have made up an excuse if they didn't want to do business with these people.
They obviously must do a roaring trade if they can afford to be so small minded.

 

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View johnfirewall's Profile johnfirewall Flag 27 Oct 16 8.13pm Send a Private Message to johnfirewall Add johnfirewall as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As ever the problem is that one persons rights often conflicts with someones else's.
The law is clear on discrimination but the owners of this cake shop should have made up an excuse if they didn't want to do business with these people.
They obviously must do a roaring trade if they can afford to be so small minded.

Which brings us back to the thread title and the newfound impartiality when other pet causes of the left oppose eachother, whether these be people or ideas.

 

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carlonoil Flag Naples 27 Oct 16 8.29pm

So, can someone go into Ashers Bakery and say "oh, 'allo, can I have a cake with 'I think Ashers cakes are awful" on it?

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 27 Oct 16 8.36pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Yeah but that's 160 odd years ago... Interestingly there is no explicit law other than precedent that prohibited gay marriage until I think the 1960s...

That's probably because homosexuality was a criminal offence up until 1967, so there was never any possibility of gay marriage. Legislation was presumably brought in when it was decriminalised.


....and it may be 160 years ago, but that is ONLY 160 years ago when compared to the history of Christian marriage and the abrahamic model of which it was
a continuation.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View blackpalacefan's Profile blackpalacefan Flag 27 Oct 16 11.22pm Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by becky

That's probably because homosexuality was a criminal offence up until 1967, so there was never any possibility of gay marriage. Legislation was presumably brought in when it was decriminalised.


....and it may be 160 years ago, but that is ONLY 160 years ago when compared to the history of Christian marriage and the abrahamic model of which it was
a continuation.

The world has changed an awful lot in 160 years so I'm not sure that we should get nostaglic about what came before.

That and using the fact that homosexuality was unjustly illegal until recent decades is not reason to restrict peoples role in society. It is instead reason to wake up to the role people should be allowed to play.

Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Oct 2016 11.22pm)

 

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carlonoil Flag Naples 28 Oct 16 8.21am

Originally posted by blackpalacefan

The world has changed an awful lot in 160 years so I'm not sure that we should get nostaglic about what came before.

That and using the fact that homosexuality was unjustly illegal until recent decades is not reason to restrict peoples role in society. It is instead reason to wake up to the role people should be allowed to play.


Edited by blackpalacefan (27 Oct 2016 11.22pm)

But it is ok to restrict Christian bakers?

Edited by carlonoil (28 Oct 2016 8.22am)

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Oct 16 9.37am

Originally posted by johnfirewall

Which brings us back to the thread title and the newfound impartiality when other pet causes of the left oppose eachother, whether these be people or ideas.

They don't. The rights of individuals who own businesses do not apply to business law, and they haven't done so for bloody decades.

Your individual rights do not apply to third parties, and even if its your business, as a company, its a third party not an individual.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Oct 16 9.38am

Originally posted by carlonoil

But it is ok to restrict Christian bakers?

Edited by carlonoil (28 Oct 2016 8.22am)

They aren't a Christian Bakers. They're a bakery and its owners are Christian, but the business is not.

Its really that simple, and its a very sane rule. Unless you want employees extending their individual religious rights into all businesses.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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carlonoil Flag Naples 28 Oct 16 10.07am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

They aren't a Christian Bakers. They're a bakery and its owners are Christian, but the business is not.

Its really that simple, and its a very sane rule. Unless you want employees extending their individual religious rights into all businesses.

You will be telling us Lee is not gay next. Its an insane rule. Businesses should be free to decline an order for whatever reason.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 28 Oct 16 12.41pm

Originally posted by becky

That's probably because homosexuality was a criminal offence up until 1967, so there was never any possibility of gay marriage. Legislation was presumably brought in when it was decriminalised.


....and it may be 160 years ago, but that is ONLY 160 years ago when compared to the history of Christian marriage and the abrahamic model of which it was
a continuation.

Fair point, but its still a legal state as far as the law is concerned, on which religious ceremonies are optional (as well as legally binding).

Homosexuality as an offence was introduced in the 1900s in the UK I think (and its sexual acts, not being homosexual that was criminal).

I'm not sure that Christian Marriage is a continuation of the Abrahamic faiths, its more of a variant (as is Jewish and Islamic marriage, all of which have different rules and interpretation based on what kind of flavour of Islam, Judaism and Christianity your dealing with.

Its easier to have a legal one, rather than about 230 or so different religious legal ones.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View blackpalacefan's Profile blackpalacefan Flag 28 Oct 16 12.53pm Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by carlonoil

You will be telling us Lee is not gay next. Its an insane rule. Businesses should be free to decline an order for whatever reason.

Welcome to your world

A-sign-in-London-reading--008.jpg Attachment: A-sign-in-London-reading--008.jpg (37.11Kb)

 

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