You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Tony Blair
April 19 2024 4.37am

Tony Blair

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 4 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

 

Hoof Hearted 29 Oct 16 11.55am

Originally posted by JohnyBoy


I had my issues with him, like i do with every PM, but although i initially voted for John Major, and then voted for Blair, i regard him as the 3rd best post war PM behind atlee and Macmillan.
Look at his record: a thriving economy, good friday peace agreement, new schools , hospitals and healthcentres....everyone will slate him for the iraq war especially tribal tories but chilcot said there were 'mistakes' but he was defo not guilty of war crimes ( i read the findings v. Thoroughly) unlike Thatcher and the sinking of the Belgrano which was very clearly a war crime.
But Tony we dont need another referendum.....we may have an election ( as people always have the right to change their minds in a democracy) but do it through parliament

Stop smoking crack and then posting on here Johnny... FFS.

Bliar is/was a grade A cnut, and any good things that happened whilst he was PM occurred despite his influence, bot because of it!

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
View JohnyBoy's Profile JohnyBoy Flag 29 Oct 16 12.34pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Stop smoking crack and then posting on here Johnny... FFS.

Bliar is/was a grade A cnut, and any good things that happened whilst he was PM occurred despite his influence, bot because of it!


Maybe i like smoking crack Hoof.
I could point out that taxes were lower, London became a boomtown, the economy grew considerably every year. Massive investment in new schools, hospitals and healthcentres, independent bofe, good friday agreement.....there is a lot to like and he was cleared for what he is disliked for

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Oct 16 12.45pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy


Maybe i like smoking crack Hoof.
I could point out that taxes were lower, London became a boomtown, the economy grew considerably every year. Massive investment in new schools, hospitals and healthcentres, independent bofe, good friday agreement.....there is a lot to like and he was cleared for what he is disliked for

Which taxes?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View JohnyBoy's Profile JohnyBoy Flag 29 Oct 16 12.52pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

Which taxes?

Higher rate tax was 40%, now its 45%.....although the headline today is that the tax lock promised by Cameron was made 'on the hoof'...hmmm

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Oct 16 1.06pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Higher rate tax was 40%, now its 45%.....although the headline today is that the tax lock promised by Cameron was made 'on the hoof'...hmmm

You must be struggling - that's 45% on earnings over 150k.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View JohnyBoy's Profile JohnyBoy Flag 29 Oct 16 1.11pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

You must be struggling - that's 45% on earnings over 150k.

There were also working family tax credits under Blair, helping many families

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Oct 16 1.31pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

There were also working family tax credits under Blair, helping many families

We still have working tax credits don't we?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View JohnyBoy's Profile JohnyBoy Flag 29 Oct 16 1.38pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

We still have working tax credits don't we?

Yes we do thanks to Blair introducing them. Like i said i have my issues with Blair like i do with most PM's but my point is that he did many good things as well as making some mistakes. He was also the Labour party's most successful leader

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 29 Oct 16 2.00pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Yes we do thanks to Blair introducing them. Like i said i have my issues with Blair like i do with most PM's but my point is that he did many good things as well as making some mistakes. He was also the Labour party's most successful leader

My query was on your comment that taxes were lower, I don't think they were - and you are entitled to any opinion on TB you wish.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View JRW2's Profile JRW2 Flag Dulwich 29 Oct 16 2.44pm Send a Private Message to JRW2 Add JRW2 as a friend

Originally posted by collier row eagle

Trying to get another referendum so people can change their mind over brexit, listen mate, the ship has sailed, get over it, yesterdays man and war criminal, f**k off

What gets me about his latest outburst is that before 23rd June he never once said that if we voted to leave we would need another referendum to approve - or reject - the terms. Now that he's lost, he tries to make having a second vote sound the most obvious and reasonable thing in the world.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 29 Oct 16 4.03pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Uk declared their zone of conflict of 200miles but never decalared 'war', therefore making it at best 'excusable' legally but 'intent' to send 200 sailors to their deaths is a war crime

I think you need to study the sinking in more detail as you have got it all wrong:

The area where General Belgrano sank is classified as a War Grave under Argentine Congress Law. In August 1994, an official Argentine Defence Ministry report written by armed forces auditor Eugenio Miari was released which described the sinking of the Belgrano as "a legal act of war", explaining that "acts of war can be carried out in all of the enemy's territory" and "they can also take place in those areas over which no state can claim sovereignty, in international waters". Argentinian veterans were said to be dismayed at the conclusion about the Belgrano and the President of the Federation of Argentine War Veterans Luis Ibáñez hoped to produce more witnesses to show that the sinking was a war crime.
In 1999, Sir Michael Boyce, First Sea Lord of the Royal Navy, visited the Puerto Belgrano naval base and paid tribute to those who died. In 2003 a search team aboard Seacor Lenga, crewed by Argentine and British veterans, was sponsored by National Geographic to find the sunken cruiser but failed to locate the ship.
In 2000, lawyers representing the families of the sailors killed onboard General Belgrano attempted to sue the British Government in the European Court of Human Rights on the grounds that the attack took place outside the exclusion zone. It was an attempt to pressure the Argentine government to lodge an action against the UK in the International Court of Justice, but was ruled inadmissible by the Court of Human Rights on the grounds that it had been submitted too late.
La Nación published a reader's letter from Admiral Enrique Molina Pico (head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s) in 2005 in which Pico wrote that General Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, but was holding off for tactical reasons. Pico added that "To leave the exclusion zone was not to leave the combat zone to enter a protected area". Pico explicitly stated that the sinking was not a war crime, but a combat action.
General Belgrano's captain, Héctor Bonzo, died on 22 April 2009, aged 76. He had spent his last years working for an association called Amigos del Crucero General Belgrano (Friends of the Cruiser General Belgrano) whose purpose was to help those affected by the sinking. Captain Bonzo also wrote his memories about the sinking in the book 1093 Tripulantes del Crucero ARA General Belgrano, published in 1992. In this book he wrote that it is "improper to accept that (...) the attack by HMS Conqueror was a betrayal".During an interview in 2003 he had stated that General Belgrano was only temporarily sailing to the west at the time of the attack, and his orders were to attack any British ships which came within range of the cruiser's armament.
In late 2011, Major David Thorp, a former British military intelligence officer who led the signals intercept team aboard HMS Intrepid, released the book The Silent Listener detailing the role of intelligence in the Falklands War. In the book he stated that despite the fact that General Belgrano was observed by Conqueror sailing away from the Falklands at the time of the attack, she had actually been ordered to proceed to a rendezvous point within the Exclusion Zone. A report prepared by Thorp for Thatcher several months after the incident stated the destination of the vessel was not to her home port as the Argentine Junta stated; the report was not released because the Prime Minister did not want to compromise British signals intelligence capabilities.
In 2012 the President of Argentina, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, referred to the sinking of General Belgrano as a "war crime". However, the Argentine Navy has historically held the view that the sinking was a legitimate act of war, a position that was asserted by the Argentine Navy before various courts in 1995."

So as you can see even the Argies say it was not a war crime so how you can see it differently JohnyBoy is way beyond me and millions of others including the Argentines!!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
View JohnyBoy's Profile JohnyBoy Flag 29 Oct 16 4.42pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

I think you need to study the sinking in more detail as you have got it all wrong:

The area where General Belgrano sank is classified as a War Grave under Argentine Congress Law. In August 1994, an official Argentine Defence Ministry report written by armed forces auditor Eugenio Miari was released which described the sinking of the Belgrano as "a legal act of war", explaining that "acts of war can be carried out in all of the enemy's territory" and "they can also take place in those areas over which no state can claim sovereignty, in international waters". Argentinian veterans were said to be dismayed at the conclusion about the Belgrano and the President of the Federation of Argentine War Veterans Luis Ibáñez hoped to produce more witnesses to show that the sinking was a war crime.
In 1999, Sir Michael Boyce, First Sea Lord of the Royal Navy, visited the Puerto Belgrano naval base and paid tribute to those who died. In 2003 a search team aboard Seacor Lenga, crewed by Argentine and British veterans, was sponsored by National Geographic to find the sunken cruiser but failed to locate the ship.
In 2000, lawyers representing the families of the sailors killed onboard General Belgrano attempted to sue the British Government in the European Court of Human Rights on the grounds that the attack took place outside the exclusion zone. It was an attempt to pressure the Argentine government to lodge an action against the UK in the International Court of Justice, but was ruled inadmissible by the Court of Human Rights on the grounds that it had been submitted too late.
La Nación published a reader's letter from Admiral Enrique Molina Pico (head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s) in 2005 in which Pico wrote that General Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, but was holding off for tactical reasons. Pico added that "To leave the exclusion zone was not to leave the combat zone to enter a protected area". Pico explicitly stated that the sinking was not a war crime, but a combat action.
General Belgrano's captain, Héctor Bonzo, died on 22 April 2009, aged 76. He had spent his last years working for an association called Amigos del Crucero General Belgrano (Friends of the Cruiser General Belgrano) whose purpose was to help those affected by the sinking. Captain Bonzo also wrote his memories about the sinking in the book 1093 Tripulantes del Crucero ARA General Belgrano, published in 1992. In this book he wrote that it is "improper to accept that (...) the attack by HMS Conqueror was a betrayal".During an interview in 2003 he had stated that General Belgrano was only temporarily sailing to the west at the time of the attack, and his orders were to attack any British ships which came within range of the cruiser's armament.
In late 2011, Major David Thorp, a former British military intelligence officer who led the signals intercept team aboard HMS Intrepid, released the book The Silent Listener detailing the role of intelligence in the Falklands War. In the book he stated that despite the fact that General Belgrano was observed by Conqueror sailing away from the Falklands at the time of the attack, she had actually been ordered to proceed to a rendezvous point within the Exclusion Zone. A report prepared by Thorp for Thatcher several months after the incident stated the destination of the vessel was not to her home port as the Argentine Junta stated; the report was not released because the Prime Minister did not want to compromise British signals intelligence capabilities.
In 2012 the President of Argentina, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, referred to the sinking of General Belgrano as a "war crime". However, the Argentine Navy has historically held the view that the sinking was a legitimate act of war, a position that was asserted by the Argentine Navy before various courts in 1995."

So as you can see even the Argies say it was not a war crime so how you can see it differently JohnyBoy is way beyond me and millions of others including the Argentines!!

Very good analysis Susmik. I would have liked to see an inquiry (similar to Chilcott) on this issue as there are differing opinions and because there are many (argies and Brits) who believe it was a war crime. Whilst i agreed with the Falklands war, i do not agree with killing servicemen outside the exclusion zone. We may have to agree to differ

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

 

Page 4 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Tony Blair