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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 11 Nov 16 3.34pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I would still expect representatives from California to oppose Trump, and push for the interests of those who elected them.

The people of Scotland. Now I do agree, that they are bound by the referendum on the EU, but that its a contradictory position compared to the independence referendum.

The SNP are representing their constituents, who clearly aren't keen on leaving the EU, but also want to remain in the UK. Realistically, I think that ultimately results in another referendum on Scottish independence.

Oddly, I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one of the UK political parties at the next general election pursue campaign on a second referendum. For someone like the Greens or Liberal Democrats it could really garner them political capital.


It is of course debatable whether they are indeed representing the best interests of their constituents or just themselves.
They are certainly perusing this for political gain as far as I'm concerned and although that accusation could have been made about the Tories for calling a referendum, the result is the result. The fact is that the majority of Scots voted to remain part of Britain and Britain voted out of Europe. The SNP are only able to make trouble because of their absurdly disproportionate representation in Westminster.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 11 Nov 16 3.35pm

Originally posted by NickinOX

Where I live there were a number of other issues on the ballot too. e.g. Whether to approve a casino, a bond to help the local university to expand its engineering programs, etc. I like being able to vote for things like that. The system is not perfect, but it does allow people to vote on things that too often are pushed through parliament or Congress via a pork barrel.

In Vermont they still have the only town meeting day in the nation (they used to be the norm). Whereby the town meets and votes on the town's budget, line by line. Whole family's show up, and a buddy and I went one year with a picnic, and sat for the day and voted.

Edited by NickinOX (11 Nov 2016 3.12pm)

We need more of this. Democracy should very much be 'audience' participation.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 11 Nov 16 3.43pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


It is of course debatable whether they are indeed representing the best interests of their constituents or just themselves.
They are certainly perusing this for political gain as far as I'm concerned and although that accusation could have been made about the Tories for calling a referendum, the result is the result. The fact is that the majority of Scots voted to remain part of Britain and Britain voted out of Europe. The SNP are only able to make trouble because of their absurdly disproportionate representation in Westminster.

Arguably the best interests of Scotland probably are to be in the UK and the EU (I think the UK economically would probably be better off in the EU - but for the UK there are bigger issues around immigration under Freedom of Movement that aren't really major issues for Scotland - which arguably could even benefit from a sizable growth in population economically speaking).

The UK I think has issues with the EU that Scotland doesn't. Border controls aren't really an issue for Scotland, given its only real border is with England, ports and airports.

Also, given its infrastructure and company base, cheap migrant labour would probably boost jobs prospects, at least in the short term, and stimulate economies linked to housing values, as well as attract new firms to develop there.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 3.53pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Originally posted by susmik

The poison dwarf was told as I have said previously that IF the UK leaves then so does Scotland there are no special clauses for Scotland and whether or not Scotland have another referendum, which I doubt very much as again the poison dwarf has been told in no uncertain terms by our prime minister they had their chance and the Scottish people voted to stick with the UK. You cannot keep having votes here there and everywhere just to please the losers. WHEN we leave so does Scotland and the way their finances are at the moment the EU will not take them back as it would be like another Greece in the pack....NO MONEY!


Scotland will get its referendum if it wants it. Love the idea that May is in position to "tell" Sturgeon anything.....

 

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View Part Time James's Profile Part Time James Flag 11 Nov 16 4.02pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by Sedlescombe


Scotland will get its referendum if it wants it. Love the idea that May is in position to "tell" Sturgeon anything.....

I wonder whether Scotland would vote out though. It'll be another vote with a far from predictable future should they leave. I'm not well educated enough to offer a prediction should they do it (you can probably tell!) but I wonder whether they'd vote to remain part of the UK again given that there's no more certainty about their future as a completely independent country than there is as part of a slightly bigger independent country. Neither option seems to have been mapped out clearly, nor can it be.

 




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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 4.15pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by Sedlescombe


Scotland will get its referendum if it wants it. Love the idea that May is in position to "tell" Sturgeon anything.....

She is. You do know that jimmy krankie isn't even an MP?

All constitutional affairs are reserved to Westminster.

The 2014 referendum was ‘made in Scotland’ after the UK Government, then led by David Cameron, agreed to give temporary powers to the Scottish Parliament to hold a legal plebiscite, under Section 30 of the 1998 Scotland Act.

Cameron met with Alex Salmond to hammer out the finer points of the deal in October 2012 - an act which has since become known as the Edinburgh Agreement.

A similar arrangement would have to be reached if Holyrood were to call a second referendum in the future.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 11 Nov 16 4.29pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by We are goin up!

4. The SNP didn't win a majority in the Scottish Parliament so they can't call a referendum as they're (just) outnumbered by unionist parties anyway.

No it isn't. The SNP doesn't have a majority but there are a majority of parties in the Scottish parliament who have actively committed to independence/a second referendum.

Whether they'd win one is a different matter. As is (I suppose) whether the UK government would grant one (although I struggle to see how Theresa May could reject it if the Scottish parliament voted in favour of calling one)

Edited by OknotOK (11 Nov 2016 4.31pm)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 4.37pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by OknotOK

No it isn't. The SNP doesn't have a majority but there are a majority of parties in the Scottish parliament who have actively committed to independence/a second referendum.

Whether they'd win one is a different matter. As is (I suppose) whether the UK government would grant one (although I struggle to see how Theresa May could reject it if the Scottish parliament voted in favour of calling one)

Edited by OknotOK (11 Nov 2016 4.31pm)

Theresa May:

“As far as I’m concerned, the Scottish people have had their vote, they voted in 2014 and a very clear message came through. Both the United Kingdom and the Scottish Government said they would abide by that.”

Edited by Stuk (11 Nov 2016 4.38pm)

 


Optimistic as ever

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 11 Nov 16 4.38pm Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

Originally posted by Sedlescombe


Scotland will get its referendum if it wants it. Love the idea that May is in position to "tell" Sturgeon anything.....

You are living in a dream world....Sturgeon has been told to button it and you know it!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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View blackpalacefan's Profile blackpalacefan Flag 11 Nov 16 4.51pm Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


It is of course debatable whether they are indeed representing the best interests of their constituents or just themselves.
They are certainly perusing this for political gain as far as I'm concerned and although that accusation could have been made about the Tories for calling a referendum, the result is the result. The fact is that the majority of Scots voted to remain part of Britain and Britain voted out of Europe. The SNP are only able to make trouble because of their absurdly disproportionate representation in Westminster.

I don't really disagree with anything here other than to add that if we're to have a complete and honest reading, one of the main arguments aimed at Scotland by our government for staying part of the UK was that if they left, they would essentially get kicked out of the EU too.

They weren't to know that Cameron would take the gamble he did. A gamble that resulted in them exiting the EU against the will of the people of Scotland. The legalities will be decided one way or another surrounding this, so it will be what it will be. I suspect they and Northern Ireland will get dragged out.

Edited by blackpalacefan (11 Nov 2016 4.53pm)

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 11 Nov 16 5.01pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by blackpalacefan

I don't really disagree with anything here other than to add that if we're to have a complete and honest reading, one of the main arguments aimed at Scotland by our government for staying part of the UK was that if they left, they would essentially get kicked out of the EU too.

They weren't to know that Cameron would take the gamble he did. A gamble that resulted in them exiting the EU against the will of the people of Scotland. The legalities will be decided one way or another surrounding this, so it will be what it will be. I suspect they and Northern Ireland will get dragged out.

Edited by blackpalacefan (11 Nov 2016 4.53pm)

Yes they did, he announced it in January 2013.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View Sedlescombe's Profile Sedlescombe Flag Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 5.21pm Send a Private Message to Sedlescombe Add Sedlescombe as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

Theresa May:

“As far as I’m concerned, the Scottish people have had their vote, they voted in 2014 and a very clear message came through. Both the United Kingdom and the Scottish Government said they would abide by that.”

Edited by Stuk (11 Nov 2016 4.38pm)

Is that a fact set in stone like the £350m a week for the NHS?

 

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