US election
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 Sedlescombe  Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 5.23pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
She is. You do know that jimmy krankie isn't even an MP? All constitutional affairs are reserved to Westminster. The 2014 referendum was ‘made in Scotland’ after the UK Government, then led by David Cameron, agreed to give temporary powers to the Scottish Parliament to hold a legal plebiscite, under Section 30 of the 1998 Scotland Act. Cameron met with Alex Salmond to hammer out the finer points of the deal in October 2012 - an act which has since become known as the Edinburgh Agreement. A similar arrangement would have to be reached if Holyrood were to call a second referendum in the future. "You do know that jimmy krankie isn't even an MP?" So what? One thing her and the Scottish Tory leader might agree on is their current roles are more significant than being an MP
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 5.26pm |
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Originally posted by Part Time James
I wonder whether Scotland would vote out though. It'll be another vote with a far from predictable future should they leave. I'm not well educated enough to offer a prediction should they do it (you can probably tell!) but I wonder whether they'd vote to remain part of the UK again given that there's no more certainty about their future as a completely independent country than there is as part of a slightly bigger independent country. Neither option seems to have been mapped out clearly, nor can it be. That is a very good point. The referendum will only happen if Sturgeon thinks she can win it because though there will be a second post-Brexit referendum there wouldnt be a third for a decade or more.
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 5.29pm |
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Originally posted by We are goin up!
1. You can flip that round and say it's weird for the SNP to demand freedom and self-governance from the UK but wish to be a part of the European Union. 2. Scotland did have the right to determine whether to be a part of a larger union. It voted as part of the UK in the EU referendum. It had just as much of a say as every other part of the country. Just because it moans the most about it doesn't give it special status. They've also had their own Indyref, how much more of a say does it want??? 3. The fault for that lies squarely at the door of the SNP. For what it's worth, I think the Scots would never be daft enough to vote for independence, and are actually even less likely to now than they were before Brexit. 4. The SNP didn't win a majority in the Scottish Parliament so they can't call a referendum as they're (just) outnumbered by unionist parties anyway. 5. Agreed.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 11 Nov 16 5.45pm |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
I don't really disagree with anything here other than to add that if we're to have a complete and honest reading, one of the main arguments aimed at Scotland by our government for staying part of the UK was that if they left, they would essentially get kicked out of the EU too. They weren't to know that Cameron would take the gamble he did. A gamble that resulted in them exiting the EU against the will of the people of Scotland. The legalities will be decided one way or another surrounding this, so it will be what it will be. I suspect they and Northern Ireland will get dragged out. Edited by blackpalacefan (11 Nov 2016 4.53pm) They did know in fact. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (11 Nov 2016 5.55pm)
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| Hrolf The Ganger 11 Nov 16 5.52pm |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
Is that a fact set in stone like the £350m a week for the NHS? How lame is that? As if the Remain camp were honest and accurate in their campaign.
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| Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 11 Nov 16 5.54pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The did know in fact. One of the arguments that the NO campaign used during the first referendum campaign was that leaving the UK would result in them leaving the EU.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 11 Nov 16 5.58pm |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
One of the arguments that the NO campaign used during the first referendum campaign was that leaving the UK would result in them leaving the EU. Politicians in shock scaremongering. Wow.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 11 Nov 16 7.25pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
How lame is that? As if the Remain camp were honest and accurate in their campaign.
Back to topic, I was very pleased to hear Trump saying he wasn't going to try and force 'western democracy' on other nations. I think that Trump may come up with some pleasant surprises during his tenure. He does have some 'left wing' ideas amongst the nonsense. Time will tell.
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| Rubin 11 Nov 16 7.36pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Back to topic, I was very pleased to hear Trump saying he wasn't going to try and force 'western democracy' on other nations. I think that Trump may come up with some pleasant surprises during his tenure. He does have some 'left wing' ideas amongst the nonsense. Time will tell. It's worth listening to some of his rally speeches towards the end of the campaign, Nick. They didn't get any coverage in our media (or America's, for that matter). Edited by Rubin (11 Nov 2016 7.38pm)
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| Hrolf The Ganger 11 Nov 16 7.37pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Back to topic, I was very pleased to hear Trump saying he wasn't going to try and force 'western democracy' on other nations. I think that Trump may come up with some pleasant surprises during his tenure. He does have some 'left wing' ideas amongst the nonsense. Time will tell. No one is excusing anything except for trying to worm out of the referendum result. The only pleasant surprises Trump will come up with is if he actually does anything he claimed he would do during his campaign. A restriction on migration and a bit of job creation would be a start.
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| Part Time James 11 Nov 16 7.44pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
How lame is that? As if the Remain camp were honest and accurate in their campaign. To be fair, that was misleading rather than a lie. Very misleading and very underhanded and written without caveats on a bus, so what I am saying by no means excuses anybody. But the original claim was "leaving the EU was forecast to free up £350m a week for the UK economy which could be put towards the NHS". That's semantics, I realise. However, who here thought that the campaigners for the Leave campaign such as Farage or Johnson would, post Brexit vote, take charge of this country and negotiate the terms of departure? But as I say, I do totally accept the moans of Remainers on this one because no one can say the public weren't mislead. It is a case of semantics though as I don't think they were lied to as such. Edited by Part Time James (11 Nov 2016 7.45pm)
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| steeleye20 Croydon 11 Nov 16 7.55pm |
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So Trump will not enforce western democracy on other nations? That's disappointing as we certainly need some with our tinpot dictator leader by-passing parliament and scared to death of the electorate.
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