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Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 30 Nov 16 3.42pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

I'm sure that southern have said guards would be used in other roles on the train. If the unions were only worried about people keeping their jobs, they would be OK with it. But it is a health and safety issue which is why action is being taken.

To the usual suspects have come out with their anti union guff, I suggest they carry one of these...

Stop talking bollocks.

They have been told they'll move to other roles but they're striking as they know people won't be kept, or new people re-employed, in a needless job forever. Eventually the number of jobs will reduce, like they will in every sector of work.

I suggest you stop thinking unions have done anything for everyone.

 


Optimistic as ever

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Nov 16 3.53pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Stop talking bollocks.

They have been told they'll move to other roles but they're striking as they know people won't be kept, or new people re-employed, in a needless job forever. Eventually the number of jobs will reduce, like they will in every sector of work.

I suggest you stop thinking unions have done anything for everyone.


From the aslef site. ASLEF: Why DOO is not safe

28 Nov 2016
Mick Whelan, ASLEF's general secretary, who is back in front of the House of Commons Transport Select Committee this afternoon, to talk about safety on Britain’s railways, is to tell MPs about the problems on the platform/train interface and explain why DOO is now inherently unsafe.
Giving evidence about the industrial dispute with Southern, and the failure of franchising, he told MPs:‘It’s been our policy for more than 15 years to seek to eradicate driver only operation. DOO was designed for three-car 317s on the Bed-Pan [Bedford to St Pancras] line in the early 1980s when it was all about managed decline at the fag end of British Rail. An increase in the number of passengers we are carrying every day means you have 1,100 passengers on a 12 car train and just two seconds to check 24 sets of doors and that’s simply not adequate to deal safely and properly with the travelling public.’
When Mick was challenged by MPs over why, if we think DOO is unsafe, we drive trains with driver only operation, he said: ‘The difference between us, and the DfT, and companies like Southern, is that we’re honourable. Where we have agreements we work to those agreements, even when we are seeking to change them because we think they’re inherently unsafe. And the industry is now catching up. DOO is not fit for purpose. There are blind spots all over the place.’


As for your last sentence. Unions haven't done anything for everyone. Really? weekends, maternity pay (ok that's only ladies), collective bargaining spring to mind off the top of my head.

30+years of anti union press has certainly had the desired effect.

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 30 Nov 16 4.16pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


From the aslef site. ASLEF: Why DOO is not safe

28 Nov 2016
Mick Whelan, ASLEF's general secretary, who is back in front of the House of Commons Transport Select Committee this afternoon, to talk about safety on Britain’s railways, is to tell MPs about the problems on the platform/train interface and explain why DOO is now inherently unsafe.
Giving evidence about the industrial dispute with Southern, and the failure of franchising, he told MPs:‘It’s been our policy for more than 15 years to seek to eradicate driver only operation. DOO was designed for three-car 317s on the Bed-Pan [Bedford to St Pancras] line in the early 1980s when it was all about managed decline at the fag end of British Rail. An increase in the number of passengers we are carrying every day means you have 1,100 passengers on a 12 car train and just two seconds to check 24 sets of doors and that’s simply not adequate to deal safely and properly with the travelling public.’
When Mick was challenged by MPs over why, if we think DOO is unsafe, we drive trains with driver only operation, he said: ‘The difference between us, and the DfT, and companies like Southern, is that we’re honourable. Where we have agreements we work to those agreements, even when we are seeking to change them because we think they’re inherently unsafe. And the industry is now catching up. DOO is not fit for purpose. There are blind spots all over the place.’


As for your last sentence. Unions haven't done anything for everyone. Really? weekends, maternity pay (ok that's only ladies), collective bargaining spring to mind off the top of my head.

30+years of anti union press has certainly had the desired effect.

Driver only operation is used far and wide and is perfectly safe. You couldn't have found a less objective source for your argument either.

Read what I wrote. They might have done something for you, but they haven't done anything for everyone. The majority of the working population look after themselves, and that number goes up every single year.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View nobody's Profile nobody Flag sussex 30 Nov 16 4.35pm Send a Private Message to nobody Add nobody as a friend

This dispute is all about one odious little Jock from the RMT trying to be a big time Charlie.

On a weekly basis he gets on the telly spouting about Safety when as already stated before driver operated doors is widespread and perfectly safe.

I am afraid Mr Gussett that jumping to the defence of any Left wing or union cause you are only doing yourself a disservice when all the facts point to political trouble making.

And please never use anything from ASLEF in a reasoned debate !

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Nov 16 5.15pm

Originally posted by Stuk

Driver only operation is used far and wide and is perfectly safe. You couldn't have found a less objective source for your argument either.

Read what I wrote. They might have done something for you, but they haven't done anything for everyone. The majority of the working population look after themselves, and that number goes up every single year.

There are many victories that unions have won that benefit everyone.


Could you imagine how different things would be had there not been unions.


I suggest you watch the video on this page [Link]

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 30 Nov 16 5.22pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

There are many victories that unions have won that benefit everyone.

Could you imagine how different things would be had there not been unions.

I suggest you watch the video on this page [Link]

You, perhaps. Everyone, no chance.

Yes, hardly at all.

Not in a million years.

 


Optimistic as ever

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Nov 16 5.34pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


From the aslef site. ASLEF: Why DOO is not safe

28 Nov 2016
Mick Whelan, ASLEF's general secretary, who is back in front of the House of Commons Transport Select Committee this afternoon, to talk about safety on Britain’s railways, is to tell MPs about the problems on the platform/train interface and explain why DOO is now inherently unsafe.
Giving evidence about the industrial dispute with Southern, and the failure of franchising, he told MPs:‘It’s been our policy for more than 15 years to seek to eradicate driver only operation. DOO was designed for three-car 317s on the Bed-Pan [Bedford to St Pancras] line in the early 1980s when it was all about managed decline at the fag end of British Rail. An increase in the number of passengers we are carrying every day means you have 1,100 passengers on a 12 car train and just two seconds to check 24 sets of doors and that’s simply not adequate to deal safely and properly with the travelling public.’
When Mick was challenged by MPs over why, if we think DOO is unsafe, we drive trains with driver only operation, he said: ‘The difference between us, and the DfT, and companies like Southern, is that we’re honourable. Where we have agreements we work to those agreements, even when we are seeking to change them because we think they’re inherently unsafe. And the industry is now catching up. DOO is not fit for purpose. There are blind spots all over the place.’


As for your last sentence. Unions haven't done anything for everyone. Really? weekends, maternity pay (ok that's only ladies), collective bargaining spring to mind off the top of my head.

30+years of anti union press has certainly had the desired effect.

People are not aware that unions are settling disputes and avoiding strikes all the time.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Nov 16 5.36pm

Double post.

Edited by nickgusset (30 Nov 2016 5.39pm)

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Nov 16 5.38pm

Originally posted by Stuk

You, perhaps. Everyone, no chance.

Yes, hardly at all.

Not in a million years.

1. Anyone who has ever had paid holiday can thank unions.

2. I beg to differ.

3. What are you scared of?

 

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View nobody's Profile nobody Flag sussex 30 Nov 16 5.52pm Send a Private Message to nobody Add nobody as a friend

I have just watched your TUC video and I am afraid that is 4.33 minutes of my life that I won't ever get back.

Unions nowdays are only of relevance in the public sector where the can flex their muscles against Hospitals, Schools and the public in general.

If they attempted their bullying tactics and the commercial sector they either lose or the company goes out of business and everyone looses their jobs.

Just for the record in the past I was a member of a trade union and even voted labour.

Now the sight of Len Mcklusky Jeremy et al just depresses me

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Nov 16 6.19pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

There are many victories that unions have won that benefit everyone.


Could you imagine how different things would be had there not been unions.


I suggest you watch the video on this page [Link]

I think a lot of people on watching this video have no idea that unions gave them these rights comes as quite a surprise to me its only 5 mins. the image of trade unions is out of date.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 30 Nov 16 6.30pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think a lot of people on watching this video have no idea that unions gave them these rights comes as quite a surprise to me its only 5 mins. the image of trade unions is out of date.

correction, the image of trade unions, as put forward by the media, is out of date.

 

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