The NHS : Who Is Telling The Truth?

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Hoof Hearted 16 Jan 17 4.30pm
Originally posted by richard.fisher I am afraid I haven't read every post in this thread and so it is possible I am revisiting ground that has already been covered. The original poster asked 'What's the view from the inside?' I am a hospital doctor and this is my 12th winter working in the NHS (I skipped to Australia for 2 winters about 10 years back). I have discussed this winter with colleagues who have worked as long or longer than I and my overall considered opinion is I have absolutely no idea if this year is better, worse or the same as previous years. At ground level (from where I cannot see the 'big picture') it seems essentially the same as every other winter. From the moment I arrive at work until 1-2 hours after my shift should have finished I work without a break and see an essentially limitless number of patients. This has always been the case. The ICU I work on is at capacity. This is always the case. Elective operations at my trust have so far almost always gone ahead, and while I have been on I don't believe we've cancelled a single operation for a patient with an urgent indication for surgery (such as cancer). I have not been told once I can't prescribe a drug or offer a treatment because we can't afford it. At the end of every month I get paid. I am not saying that things are okay, are better or are worse than ever before. Just from the inside (but at ground level) it is just not possible for me to tell. It certainly feels similar to every other winter. Respect to you Dr Fisher (or is it Mr?) You doctors do an excellent job.... I know... my list of chronic illnesses and surgical procedures performed under General Anaesthetic is a long as an Orangutan's arm!
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Hoof Hearted 16 Jan 17 4.30pm

Originally posted by richard.fisher

I am afraid I haven't read every post in this thread and so it is possible I am revisiting ground that has already been covered.

The original poster asked 'What's the view from the inside?'

I am a hospital doctor and this is my 12th winter working in the NHS (I skipped to Australia for 2 winters about 10 years back). I have discussed this winter with colleagues who have worked as long or longer than I and my overall considered opinion is I have absolutely no idea if this year is better, worse or the same as previous years. At ground level (from where I cannot see the 'big picture') it seems essentially the same as every other winter.

From the moment I arrive at work until 1-2 hours after my shift should have finished I work without a break and see an essentially limitless number of patients. This has always been the case. The ICU I work on is at capacity. This is always the case. Elective operations at my trust have so far almost always gone ahead, and while I have been on I don't believe we've cancelled a single operation for a patient with an urgent indication for surgery (such as cancer). I have not been told once I can't prescribe a drug or offer a treatment because we can't afford it. At the end of every month I get paid.

I am not saying that things are okay, are better or are worse than ever before. Just from the inside (but at ground level) it is just not possible for me to tell.

It certainly feels similar to every other winter.

Respect to you Dr Fisher (or is it Mr?)

You doctors do an excellent job.... I know... my list of chronic illnesses and surgical procedures performed under General Anaesthetic is a long as an Orangutan's arm!

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 Jan 17 7.30pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Sorry, but that's the same kind of thing Hrolf got a yellow for. Now you can both be persecuted by the man I thought it was funny and wasn't actually meant as I dig. If I'd known I was going to get a yellow I would have called him a... Edited by nickgusset (16 Jan 2017 7.49pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 Jan 17 7.30pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Sorry, but that's the same kind of thing Hrolf got a yellow for.

Now you can both be persecuted by the man

I thought it was funny and wasn't actually meant as I dig. If I'd known I was going to get a yellow I would have called him a...

Edited by nickgusset (16 Jan 2017 7.49pm)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 Jan 17 7.36pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Respect to you Dr Fisher (or is it Mr?) You doctors do an excellent job.... I know... my list of chronic illnesses and surgical procedures performed under General Anaesthetic is a long as an Orangutan's arm! Yes well done for pointing out its been in a s***e state of affairs for all the time you've worked for the NHS. Fact is PFI has massively facked hospitals like princess royal. The PFI contracts should be made null and void with a better repayment formula sorted. Enough money has been made from this scam. (had it been organised more fairly there's no reason to say it might have been better.) If only there was a party leader who had similar ideas... Edited by nickgusset (16 Jan 2017 7.36pm)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 Jan 17 7.36pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Respect to you Dr Fisher (or is it Mr?)

You doctors do an excellent job.... I know... my list of chronic illnesses and surgical procedures performed under General Anaesthetic is a long as an Orangutan's arm!

Yes well done for pointing out its been in a s***e state of affairs for all the time you've worked for the NHS.

Fact is PFI has massively facked hospitals like princess royal. The PFI contracts should be made null and void with a better repayment formula sorted. Enough money has been made from this scam. (had it been organised more fairly there's no reason to say it might have been better.)
If only there was a party leader who had similar ideas...

Edited by nickgusset (16 Jan 2017 7.36pm)

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 16 Jan 17 7.59pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Yes well done for pointing out its been in a s***e state of affairs for all the time you've worked for the NHS. Fact is PFI has massively facked hospitals like princess royal. The PFI contracts should be made null and void with a better repayment formula sorted. Enough money has been made from this scam. (had it been organised more fairly there's no reason to say it might have been better.) If only there was a party leader who had similar ideas... Edited by nickgusset (16 Jan 2017 7.36pm) I agree that the contracts should be made null and void and John Major and Tony Blair have a lot to answer for Majors for starting it all off and Blair for making it as widespread as it is now. PFI contracts were not thought out in detail and look where we have ended up now! Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 16 Jan 17 7.59pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Yes well done for pointing out its been in a s***e state of affairs for all the time you've worked for the NHS.

Edited by nickgusset (16 Jan 2017 7.36pm)

I agree that the contracts should be made null and void and John Major and Tony Blair have a lot to answer for Majors for starting it all off and Blair for making it as widespread as it is now. PFI contracts were not thought out in detail and look where we have ended up now!

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 Jan 17 8.03pm
Originally posted by susmik I agree that the contracts should be made null and void and John Major and Tony Blair have a lot to answer for Majors for starting it all off and Blair for making it as widespread as it is now. PFI contracts were not thought out in detail and look where we have ended up now! They were thought out in detail, by the ones who have profited from it. Sure I read (I'll look it up when I get a chance) that we have paid out 3 times what it would have cost to build the hospitals (issuing government bonds would have been a better way of raising capital for the projects rather than getting private companies involved - funny how the Sun backed Blair isn't it when there was money to be made out of it) and are still barely into the contracts.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 Jan 17 8.03pm

Originally posted by susmik

They were thought out in detail, by the ones who have profited from it. Sure I read (I'll look it up when I get a chance) that we have paid out 3 times what it would have cost to build the hospitals (issuing government bonds would have been a better way of raising capital for the projects rather than getting private companies involved - funny how the Sun backed Blair isn't it when there was money to be made out of it) and are still barely into the contracts.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Jan 17 9.33am
I don't think the UK can void the PFI contracts, not legally anyhow, without paying them out. The issue with the profits, largely exists, because the risk in the initial period was incurred by the corporate partner, rather than the treasury. They are excessive, but that's what you get when you try to provide infrastructure without paying for it through taxation. The government is bound by the law, and unless these companies are in breach of contract then they're probably protected. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 17 Jan 17 9.33am

I don't think the UK can void the PFI contracts, not legally anyhow, without paying them out. The issue with the profits, largely exists, because the risk in the initial period was incurred by the corporate partner, rather than the treasury.

They are excessive, but that's what you get when you try to provide infrastructure without paying for it through taxation.

The government is bound by the law, and unless these companies are in breach of contract then they're probably protected.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hoof Hearted 17 Jan 17 11.15am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Where as calling someone a racist is OK. I think I'll come back when all forms of abuse and prejudice carry the same punishments. I did warn you Hrolf. Best to ignore irritating posters winding you up and getting yourself yellow carded.... then they 'sympathise' with you.... "Oh have those nasty Mods carded you comrade? It was only banter!" Keep your head down for a month and then Jamie will remove the offending card. Don't 'flounce' or be tempted to bite again.
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Hoof Hearted 17 Jan 17 11.15am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Where as calling someone a racist is OK.

I think I'll come back when all forms of abuse and prejudice carry the same punishments.

I did warn you Hrolf.

Best to ignore irritating posters winding you up and getting yourself yellow carded.... then they 'sympathise' with you.... "Oh have those nasty Mods carded you comrade? It was only banter!"

Keep your head down for a month and then Jamie will remove the offending card.

Don't 'flounce' or be tempted to bite again.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 18 Jan 17 9.58am
Workers know the truth. Trouble is, a lot of them are agency staff, who don't give a shlt. The NHS is sick,......oh the irony. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 18 Jan 17 9.58am

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Workers know the truth.
Trouble is, a lot of them are agency staff, who don't give a shlt.

The NHS is sick,......oh the irony.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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jamiemartin721 Reading 18 Jan 17 1.52pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly Workers know the truth. Trouble is, a lot of them are agency staff, who don't give a shlt. The NHS is sick,......oh the irony. A lot of the agency staff, are ex-NHS staff, who couldn't really afford not to become agency staff and made the jump so they could do things like have homes, raise families etc. I think its pretty reasonable to accept that the NHS is in or on the verge of a crisis. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 18 Jan 17 1.52pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

Workers know the truth.
Trouble is, a lot of them are agency staff, who don't give a shlt.

The NHS is sick,......oh the irony.

A lot of the agency staff, are ex-NHS staff, who couldn't really afford not to become agency staff and made the jump so they could do things like have homes, raise families etc.

I think its pretty reasonable to accept that the NHS is in or on the verge of a crisis.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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