The idea is that when Pirlo got slow and couldn't run anymore as a winger, he became a central midfielder.
Not that Puncheon is as good as him. Proportions must be kept, we're talking about Juventus and Palace here. But Benteke is still the type of Mandzukic striker and Mandanda is still a goalkeeper like Buffon.

The point is that Pirlo played first man in front of the defence when Juventus won their first title under Conte. 3 at the back: Bonucci, Barzagli, Chiellini. Pirlo in front of the defence, with Vidal and Pogba as box-to-box. 2 strikers: Tevez and Morata.

In Allegri's first season, they even ditched Barzagli and played Marchisio as a third box-to-box midfielder and still won the league by a great margin.
Now, they go between 3-5-2 and 4-4-2. But they still have a playmaker in front of the defence: Pjanic.

And many low level teams have one too, to distribute the balls: Huddlestone for Hull, Shelvey for Newcastle, Charlie Adam for Stoke, Wilshire plays there many times, Jurado for Espanyol, Huszti for Eintracht.....

All of those players were a lot faster when younger, but got slower and more intelligent with the passage of time. I don't see why Puncheon can't play like this as long as he has Cabaye and McArthur to sweep in front of him. Do you think Milivojevic is that much different from Puncheon? Good technique, slow feet. This is exactly what you'll get from him

Really? According to the official EPL stats they've had 5 more than Hull, 4 more than Burnley & 43 less than us.

Go figure...

Edit: To save you the effort, it's here: [Link]

Edited by Nobbybm (05 Feb 2017 10.26pm)

Edited by Nobbybm (05 Feb 2017 10.27pm)

Well, kuddos to you for pointing that out to me. It's the first time someone has really brought up arguments and I have to admit I was wrong about WBA.
I was basing my estimation on what I've seen lately:

[Link]

[Link]

[Link]

But, following your line of thought and the link you provided, you HAVE TO notice a correlation between the shots created by each team and their position in the league.
With 3 exceptions: WBA being higher than normally, Southampton and Crystal Palace (sadly) being lower, all the other 17 teams are pretty much right where they should be. Chelsea has the highest number of shots ON TARGET. About West Ham it's tricky. They have shots, but very few shots on target.

Of course defensive statistics are very important too. But I stick to my analysis that offensive stats count for more.
Just click on the clean sheets button on the bottom of the page and you'll notice that it correlates less with the position of the teams. Southampton is in Champions League position, Bournemouth and Middlesbrough are in Europa League spots, Watford is in the relegation are although they are pretty much SAFE.
All that is because a clean sheet and a 0-0 result only brings you 1 point, instead of 3. 10 clean sheets with 2 wins and 8 draws get you 14 points. No clean sheets but 5 wins and 5 losses get you 15 points. And an entire league lasts even longer than that.

TLDR: You were right about WBA. They aren't that good on the counter attack as I said. Still, they are an EXCEPTION. The best thing to do is to CREATE in every game. If you have 15+ shots and 7+ shots on target each game, you will probably reach your goal, even though there will be matches in which you will lose.

One guy said on the previous page that Liverpool still lost at Hull. Yes, but it was 1 match. You can't control luck, extraordinary saves, a penalty, suspensions once in a while. But OVERALL, controlling matches is the goal. At the end of the season, Liverpool will be in a much better position than Hull.

For Palace to be in better position than Sunderland, Middlesbrough and Burnley, the team needs to create much more than them.
Of course, closing in spaces in defence and not neglecting it.

Edited by mattteo (06 Feb 2017 10.04am)

There really are only 3 players in the Palace team that can distribute the balls in front of the defence: Puncheon, Cabaye and, now, Milivojevic (from what I've seen he's a smooth passer and has technique, but lacks stamina).
Honestly, I don't think it's possible to play without a coordinator/playmaker in the Premier League anymore:

Tottenham: Dembele
Liverpool: Wijnaldum and Lallana (4-3-3 system)
Arsenal: Cazorla or Ramsey
Man Utd: A. Herrera
Man City: Toure and D. Silva/Gundogan (4-3-3 system)
Everton: Barry (?remember he was once like Puncheon?)
Southampton: Hojberg and even Clasie/Romeu are they are schooled in the Netherlands and Spain, where passing is key
Leicester: Drinkwater
West Ham: Noble
Stoke: Charlie Adam
Bournemouth: Wilshire or Arter
Middlesbrough: Marten de Roon and Forshaw (4-3-3 system)
Hull: Huddlestone
Swansea: Ki Sung Yeong

Sure, WBA play with Darren Fletcher and Yacob there, but again....they're an anomaly, an exception relying on high balls and free kicks converted by their tall players.
How would you have Palace play if you don't use one of Cabaye/ Puncheon/ Milivoljevic in front of the defence? Oh, with long balls on Benteke and then hopefully something coming out of that. Yeah, great tactic. Modern football!!

The team has already played the trio of McArthur, Cabaye and Puncheon in the middle. But THE ENTIRE POINT of what I've been trying to say is that their triangular distribution with Puncheon behind the striker is wrong. He should be in front of the defence distributing balls. The other 2, who can run faster should be box-to-box. At least that's how I've seen modern football change it. You can't play behind the striker if you don't have pace, if you're not a Michael Owen type of player. And Puncheon can't play there anymore. He can't appear fast enough in the opposing box to finish and he can't track back fast enough to close spaces.
But...in front of the defence it's not about pace but about smart movement and covering spaces. That's why I gave the examples of Pirlo, Motta or Kroos, not because Puncheon is in any wat as good as them. They're just well known. I could have just said Gareth Barry or Carrick. Look at those 2. Hardly any pace, but they never reach the box of the other team, they always maintain position. And, if they aren't protected by the other midfielders in front of them and are caught alone, they make a fault.

So, yeah, I'm dead serious when I say that Puncheon is one of the few options Palace as as holding mf. There are only 3. If you can tell me anyone else who can get the ball out of our defence and create attacks, please do. I really doubt that McArthur or Flamini can do that. The ball will bite them!

Sure, Punch is good on the wing too, as he has that natural left foot. Baut there are plenty left footed wingers already (Townsend, Schlupp, Sako), so I'd rather see him as playmaker.
Many will say that his place is on the bench ) Yes, but it is there because he wasn't used right. Cabaye is capable of playing box-to-box, he's not

If you tell me your age then I'll agree with anything you want. But, please, be honest. I' m not asking this to make fun or disrespect you, but you underlined a passage about Gereth Barry being like Puncheon and called me deluded.

I really thin you're too young to have seen the days Barry was playing as WINGER