British Values?
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hedgehog50  Croydon 27 Feb 17 2.45pm |
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Originally posted by Username
How? Are you going to make people become Doctors? Or more importantly, get them to stay in the country or the profession? 11% of all NHS staff and 26% of GPs were born outside of the United Kingdom*. We're so short of quality Doctors and Nurses that we're desperate for more people to come here and help. What about teaching? We're losing tens of thousands of teachers a year and applications for training have also fallen I believe? *source: [Link] Have you actually read your Grauniad source? It specially states that the figures do not include GPs!
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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 Username Horsham 27 Feb 17 2.52pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Have you actually read your Grauniad source? It specially states that the figures do not include GPs! Ha! Fair catch. 26% of NHS Doctors. The number of GPs who were trained overseas is 22%, having risen 11% between 2004 and 2015.
Employee of the month is a good example of how someone can be both a winner and a loser at the same time. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Feb 17 2.55pm |
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Originally posted by Username
Ha! Fair catch. 26% of NHS Doctors. The number of GPs who were trained overseas is 22%, having risen 11% between 2004 and 2015. EU immigrants make up about 5% of English NHS staff and about 5% of the English population, according to the best available data. Across the UK, EU immigrants make up 10% of registered doctors and 4% of registered nurses. Immigrants from outside the EU make up larger proportions. Restrictions on non-EU immigrants have affected NHS recruitment, suggesting that the same could happen if there were limits on EU immigration.
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Attachment: | Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 3.36pm |
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Originally posted by Username
I mean, I'm honestly not sure why that is your major concern but... Firstly, that's pretty much an impossible scenario isn't it? For that to happen, the immigrant population would have to double while the UK born population remains the same. It also assumes that everyone not born here is on the same 'side'. So unless we've declared war on India, pakistan, Bangladesh, Poland, Turkey, Greece, China, Russia, Australia, Ireland, USA, France, South Africa, Nigeria, Ghana, Colombia, Brazil, Portugal etc. all at the same time I don't see how it's relevant? Secondly, not everyone who isn't born here would be 'against us' anyway. Plenty of people come here and consider themselves British, their Children grow up as British etc. Thirdly, we fought two World Wars with an empire. In both World Wars, men and women from the entirety of the Commonwealth fought and died under a British flag. Would they not have been 'against us' then? Why would it be different now? Well at least you responded with a sensible argument. The population of non immigrants is in fact declining not just remaining static so the migrants and their offspring are in fact the only driving force behind population increase and therefore will be contributing the largest single amount to the aging population in future. The world is very different from Empire days. You didn't comment on the rise of minority politics unsurprisingly.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 3.39pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
You want to live in a dream fantasy world. So how would this Utopia cope with an ever-increasing ageing population and the need to keep a strong economy for tax revenue purposes to upkeep public services? Political will of the kind you want belongs to the far-right and we all know how constructive they are once they get their grubby mitts on a bit of power. Let reality bite you. It won't hurt. The reality is that we should be raising taxation and revenue, to compensate for an aging population. Public services can only exist with reasonable foundation of resources coming from the treasury. Just importing a s**tload of cheap labour to do jobs, is a short term 'boost' but has other consequences, notably for the current generation (who now are less likely to earn as much). The EU isn't the real problem here, the Freedom of Movement and Corporate exploitation of cheap labour markets is. And the government have continued to play along through the boom years, and bust, by not taxing the profits generated by companies, and by not raising minimum wage to a competitive level for nationals with roots. Ok, for some its all about immigrants, and their prejudices, and they're wrong, because they fail to see that these people, and the countries they're drawn from are also victims of the same problem. But the immigrants are not the problem here. And a lot of people on the further right, use the term immigrant in the same way they would in previous generations used n*gger or Jew. Poland has a massive skills and knowledge shortage from its work force coming to the UK to earn more, and its intellectual and educational elite being syphoned off to mid level UK jobs.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 3.55pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
The reality is that we should be raising taxation and revenue, to compensate for an aging population. Public services can only exist with reasonable foundation of resources coming from the treasury. Just importing a s**tload of cheap labour to do jobs, is a short term 'boost' but has other consequences, notably for the current generation (who now are less likely to earn as much). The EU isn't the real problem here, the Freedom of Movement and Corporate exploitation of cheap labour markets is. And the government have continued to play along through the boom years, and bust, by not taxing the profits generated by companies, and by not raising minimum wage to a competitive level for nationals with roots. Ok, for some its all about immigrants, and their prejudices, and they're wrong, because they fail to see that these people, and the countries they're drawn from are also victims of the same problem. But the immigrants are not the problem here. And a lot of people on the further right, use the term immigrant in the same way they would in previous generations used n*gger or Jew. Poland has a massive skills and knowledge shortage from its work force coming to the UK to earn more, and its intellectual and educational elite being syphoned off to mid level UK jobs. You are once again almost entirely right. I would however say that although there is clearly wild eyed foaming prejudice among a small minority, the vast majority of objection to immigration beyond the economic and population issues is the fear that it allows undesirable elements to enter the country.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 4.13pm |
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I think the far right exploits those fears and amplifies them, in order to appeal to a wider audience. A large part of the media also appeals to that same audience, as well, and tailors stories accordingly. So we hear about the horrific activities of the sex traffickers, but get minimal coverage of the fact that by and large, they're also feeding off a demand in the UK for paid sex, that's illegal etc. Similarly, drug distribution in the UK, isn't really just a 'migrant thing' or ethnicity thing, and there is a great deal of money, being made, especially by those in the high points of the distribution chain, by UK nationals (who also dominate the very lucrative money laundering aspects as well). But the 'use of biased' reporting isn't anything new. We like to paint the blame somewhere, anywhere, but tend to ignore 'our own' in the process.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 27 Feb 17 5.06pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think the far right exploits those fears and amplifies them, in order to appeal to a wider audience. A large part of the media also appeals to that same audience, as well, and tailors stories accordingly. So we hear about the horrific activities of the sex traffickers, but get minimal coverage of the fact that by and large, they're also feeding off a demand in the UK for paid sex, that's illegal etc. Similarly, drug distribution in the UK, isn't really just a 'migrant thing' or ethnicity thing, and there is a great deal of money, being made, especially by those in the high points of the distribution chain, by UK nationals (who also dominate the very lucrative money laundering aspects as well). But the 'use of biased' reporting isn't anything new. We like to paint the blame somewhere, anywhere, but tend to ignore 'our own' in the process. Like the coverage of Trump you mean?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 27 Feb 17 5.14pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
I think the far right exploits those fears and amplifies them, in order to appeal to a wider audience. A large part of the media also appeals to that same audience, as well, and tailors stories accordingly. So we hear about the horrific activities of the sex traffickers, but get minimal coverage of the fact that by and large, they're also feeding off a demand in the UK for paid sex, that's illegal etc. Similarly, drug distribution in the UK, isn't really just a 'migrant thing' or ethnicity thing, and there is a great deal of money, being made, especially by those in the high points of the distribution chain, by UK nationals (who also dominate the very lucrative money laundering aspects as well). But the 'use of biased' reporting isn't anything new. We like to paint the blame somewhere, anywhere, but tend to ignore 'our own' in the process. Fair comment but given that the governments of Western countries by and large support the corporate desire for cheap labour and see it as a short term solution for propping up the economy, it seems far more likely that they will suppress or hide any negativity resulting from immigration and that this will have a bigger impact on the validity of information than right wing propaganda.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 Feb 17 5.26pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Fair comment but given that the governments of Western countries by and large support the corporate desire for cheap labour and see it as a short term solution for propping up the economy, it seems far more likely that they will suppress or hide any negativity resulting from immigration and that this will have a bigger impact on the validity of information than right wing propaganda. Is there any credible evidence about Swedish crime. I know they don't include ethnic origin on crime statistics.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 5.28pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Fair comment but given that the governments of Western countries by and large support the corporate desire for cheap labour and see it as a short term solution for propping up the economy, it seems far more likely that they will suppress or hide any negativity resulting from immigration and that this will have a bigger impact on the validity of information than right wing propaganda. Immigration, must be controlled and used to serve the interests of the nation, and it hasn't been. Its different where there is a whole scale shortage to fill a demand that cannot be met (so you go outside). The problem with Freedom of Movement, is that its about fulfilling demand completely, with short term immigration. Everyone is getting shafted, the immigrants and the citizens, whilst corporations benefit from lowered taxes, and lower wages.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 27 Feb 17 5.32pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Like the coverage of Trump you mean? Is it biased, to call people out on their bulls***, and mistakes. I don't think it is. The president is a dumb, t***, hardly capable of producing an argument or discourse. He has all the charisma of a gang rape, and is f**king s**t at expressing himself. That's not being biased, that's the media doing its job.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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