Video Analysis of Stoke Goal vs CPFC

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dmendenhall_9 20 Feb 17 6.30pm
I agree that Zaha lost it I just think he needed more support from Puncheon but yeah it wasn't the greatest effort from Zaha. I agree there was a man to man but that isn't enough to defend in the Premier League though we did get all crossed up in who was covering who (it was a nice run by Allen, wish Puncheon would make runs like that, ha). Thanks for the comments. Originally posted by cardiff eagle Was interesting. My points would be: 1. Zaha lost the ball, not puncheon. He could've played it off the man for throw in or slipped it inside for ward. However, so much happened since then that you can't blame the person who gave the ball away 2. When the ball was played forward for the goal I don't really blame puncheon too much or not anymore than Luca. Looking behind them there was a man to each stoke player and then Delaney was spare who could've picked up Allen. 3. Delaney runs too far back allowing Allen space to set himself and pick his angle. 4. Agree Hennessy was on back foot too much but think his general position was okish. Should've got their quicker perhaps but if he have stayed more to the right then Allen would've taken an earlier shot to the left instead. Basically in general was a good goal and not much blame to be apportioned. Think Delaney for me is the one who stands out as he could see joe allens run from early, knew everyone else was being marked and should've gone to the ball rather than running away then going to the ball. Strikes me that he didn't have confidence in PVA to stop Ramadan turning and shooting so gambled that way rather than trusting the man marking.
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dmendenhall_9

20 Feb 17 6.30pm

I agree that Zaha lost it I just think he needed more support from Puncheon but yeah it wasn't the greatest effort from Zaha.

I agree there was a man to man but that isn't enough to defend in the Premier League though we did get all crossed up in who was covering who (it was a nice run by Allen, wish Puncheon would make runs like that, ha).

Thanks for the comments.

Originally posted by cardiff eagle

Was interesting. My points would be:

1. Zaha lost the ball, not puncheon. He could've played it off the man for throw in or slipped it inside for ward. However, so much happened since then that you can't blame the person who gave the ball away

2. When the ball was played forward for the goal I don't really blame puncheon too much or not anymore than Luca. Looking behind them there was a man to each stoke player and then Delaney was spare who could've picked up Allen.

3. Delaney runs too far back allowing Allen space to set himself and pick his angle.

4. Agree Hennessy was on back foot too much but think his general position was okish. Should've got their quicker perhaps but if he have stayed more to the right then Allen would've taken an earlier shot to the left instead.

Basically in general was a good goal and not much blame to be apportioned. Think Delaney for me is the one who stands out as he could see joe allens run from early, knew everyone else was being marked and should've gone to the ball rather than running away then going to the ball. Strikes me that he didn't have confidence in PVA to stop Ramadan turning and shooting so gambled that way rather than trusting the man marking.

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dmendenhall_9 20 Feb 17 6.34pm
Yes! Totally agree with what you are saying here. Puncheon losing the ball in bad positions is a normal thing now (I don't worry about Zaha as much because he usually only loses it in the final third and he has been one of our best players for 2 years now). I can't wait to see a midfield of McArthur, Luka, and Cabaye. I think we will see a lot more success in build up play, passing and ball retention. Crossing my fingers that 's our starting midfield next game. With those three I do see it difficult to pick out who are #10 will be and think we still need someone to fill that position (unless Cabaye changes his mind and wants to play there). Originally posted by essetwentyone This goal is just another example of us being caught on the counter. This sort of goal has been conceded for a few seasons now especially in our home games with Defoe's 2 goals recently classic examples. Our previous Premiership success came from being a counter attacking time with the pace of Zaha and Bolaise but this success was mainly in away games or against the top teams at home. When confronted by a 10 man defence at home we were always open to the break. The main reason for these goals was and still is due to us losing the ball high up the pitch when we are attacking thus leaving us bare at the back. This is exactly what happened at Stoke. To be fair to Pardew he tried to change our style so that we were not just counter attacking but the problem he had was just the same as before (and since ). That problem is we do not have a strong enough midfield. Too many times we give the ball away with the main culprits being Puncheon and Wilf. In this league you get punished for these mistakes. I thought that Cabaye would be the answer to this problem but he has been a massive let down and no doubt he let Pardew down as well. Whether Luka will be the answer only time will tell but in the meantime Sam's only option is to pack the midfield and play more defensively. My main worry with this is that it requires a lone striker who works his socks off. Benteke doesn't do that , Remy might and Campbell will but he doesn't have the quality to score the goals we need. Benteke has the quality but Sam has got to get him out of first gear because Prem football now is all about being an 11 man game and it starts with the striker. I'd like to see Luka and Cabaye playing in front of the defence to give the protection with McCarthur in front of them thus making us solid through the middle but it still needs a hard working striker. A change of keeper is also well overdue. The amount of criticism towards Hennessey surely must have affected his confidence and that of the defenders in front of him ?
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dmendenhall_9

20 Feb 17 6.34pm

Yes! Totally agree with what you are saying here. Puncheon losing the ball in bad positions is a normal thing now (I don't worry about Zaha as much because he usually only loses it in the final third and he has been one of our best players for 2 years now). I can't wait to see a midfield of McArthur, Luka, and Cabaye. I think we will see a lot more success in build up play, passing and ball retention. Crossing my fingers that 's our starting midfield next game. With those three I do see it difficult to pick out who are #10 will be and think we still need someone to fill that position (unless Cabaye changes his mind and wants to play there).

Originally posted by essetwentyone

This goal is just another example of us being caught on the counter. This sort of goal has been conceded for a few seasons now especially in our home games with Defoe's 2 goals recently classic examples.

Our previous Premiership success came from being a counter attacking time with the pace of Zaha and Bolaise but this success was mainly in away games or against the top teams at home. When confronted by a 10 man defence at home we were always open to the break.
The main reason for these goals was and still is due to us losing the ball high up the pitch when we are attacking thus leaving us bare at the back. This is exactly what happened at Stoke.

To be fair to Pardew he tried to change our style so that we were not just counter attacking but the problem he had was just the same as before (and since ). That problem is we do not have a strong enough midfield. Too many times we give the ball away with the main culprits being Puncheon and Wilf. In this league you get punished for these mistakes.

I thought that Cabaye would be the answer to this problem but he has been a massive let down and no doubt he let Pardew down as well. Whether Luka will be the answer only time will tell but in the meantime Sam's only option is to pack the midfield and play more defensively. My main worry with this is that it requires a lone striker who works his socks off. Benteke doesn't do that , Remy might and Campbell will but he doesn't have the quality to score the goals we need. Benteke has the quality but Sam has got to get him out of first gear because Prem football now is all about being an 11 man game and it starts with the striker.
I'd like to see Luka and Cabaye playing in front of the defence to give the protection with McCarthur in front of them thus making us solid through the middle but it still needs a hard working striker.

A change of keeper is also well overdue. The amount of criticism towards Hennessey surely must have affected his confidence and that of the defenders in front of him ?

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dmendenhall_9 20 Feb 17 6.38pm
Oh man, love what you said here. I totally agree that the defense is not to blame they are doing their best with overlapping runs, tracking back, etc. and it isn't an easy thing to do. I agree with Hennessey I just think instead of backing up so hard he should be doing little side steps towards the ball staying in his arc. Again, it isn't a save I expect him to make but with better footwork and positioning it would at least give him a chance. Just pray that Speroni or Mandada start next game, two keepers who excel at footwork and positioning. Originally posted by Mad4palace Good analysis. The midfield was the most at fault here, Puncheon should have got back, he knows where Milivojevic is and that McArthur is way up field. That said, McArthur should be getting back quicker though and be there just to make the pass out to Ramadan a little harder to make, if Arnoutovic just has to think about it a little more then maybe he's tackled or overhits the pass. From the moment Wilf loses it McArthur doesn't do anything, he's looking back at a huge gap in the centre of midfield and he doesn't track back, he just needs to defend the space then either the initial pass might not be made or Allen won't have that space to run into. The defence is not really at fault here, only Delaney possibly should have not rushed back at full pelt like he did, he might have been better set/positioned to make the block on the shot a bit higher up. Decent spot on Hennessey, although if he were to keep his original position then Allen would have just slipped it into the near post and if he comes too far to the left then he would have even more momentum taking him away from where Allen slots it in the end. His footwork was terrible though, nothing to spring from as dmendenhal points out and he gives up to much of the goal to aim at. The most apt description of Hennessey from your vid: "He literally just falls". The truth is Hennessey is a s*** athlete compared to practically all PL goalkeepers, especially compared to Speroni. But Hennessey doesn't make up for it with good positioning or footwork, that's arguably even worse. He only has decent kicking and that shouldn't be what a keeper is selected on. Edited by Mad4palace (20 Feb 2017 12.53pm)
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dmendenhall_9

20 Feb 17 6.38pm

Oh man, love what you said here. I totally agree that the defense is not to blame they are doing their best with overlapping runs, tracking back, etc. and it isn't an easy thing to do.

I agree with Hennessey I just think instead of backing up so hard he should be doing little side steps towards the ball staying in his arc. Again, it isn't a save I expect him to make but with better footwork and positioning it would at least give him a chance. Just pray that Speroni or Mandada start next game, two keepers who excel at footwork and positioning.

Originally posted by Mad4palace

Good analysis. The midfield was the most at fault here, Puncheon should have got back, he knows where Milivojevic is and that McArthur is way up field. That said, McArthur should be getting back quicker though and be there just to make the pass out to Ramadan a little harder to make, if Arnoutovic just has to think about it a little more then maybe he's tackled or overhits the pass. From the moment Wilf loses it McArthur doesn't do anything, he's looking back at a huge gap in the centre of midfield and he doesn't track back, he just needs to defend the space then either the initial pass might not be made or Allen won't have that space to run into. The defence is not really at fault here, only Delaney possibly should have not rushed back at full pelt like he did, he might have been better set/positioned to make the block on the shot a bit higher up.

Decent spot on Hennessey, although if he were to keep his original position then Allen would have just slipped it into the near post and if he comes too far to the left then he would have even more momentum taking him away from where Allen slots it in the end. His footwork was terrible though, nothing to spring from as dmendenhal points out and he gives up to much of the goal to aim at. The most apt description of Hennessey from your vid: "He literally just falls". The truth is Hennessey is a s*** athlete compared to practically all PL goalkeepers, especially compared to Speroni. But Hennessey doesn't make up for it with good positioning or footwork, that's arguably even worse. He only has decent kicking and that shouldn't be what a keeper is selected on.

Edited by Mad4palace (20 Feb 2017 12.53pm)

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dmendenhall_9 20 Feb 17 6.41pm
Thanks! I will try to make them shorter. The problem is I have to switch back and forth between two programs the whole time so that is where some of the delays are coming from (and I just talk slow I realized, ha). That is why I recommend watching it in 1.5X or 2X speed on YouTube which you can access in the little settings wheel at the bottom right. I will try to speed it up myself next time but I didn't have the time this week. Thanks for the feedback! Originally posted by Mad4palace A little more editing down needed but I'm grateful that there is a fan putting in the time and effort to analyze our games and upload something. If the OP keeps doing these his videos will get better with practice. Most of us just watch the game once then a lot of the time spout crap about who was at fault for a goal (I include myself in this).
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dmendenhall_9

20 Feb 17 6.41pm

Thanks! I will try to make them shorter. The problem is I have to switch back and forth between two programs the whole time so that is where some of the delays are coming from (and I just talk slow I realized, ha).

That is why I recommend watching it in 1.5X or 2X speed on YouTube which you can access in the little settings wheel at the bottom right. I will try to speed it up myself next time but I didn't have the time this week.

Thanks for the feedback!

Originally posted by Mad4palace

A little more editing down needed but I'm grateful that there is a fan putting in the time and effort to analyze our games and upload something. If the OP keeps doing these his videos will get better with practice. Most of us just watch the game once then a lot of the time spout crap about who was at fault for a goal (I include myself in this).

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mattteo 22 Feb 17 10.46am
Originally posted by cardiff eagle Was interesting. My points would be: 1. Zaha lost the ball, not puncheon. He could've played it off the man for throw in or slipped it inside for ward. However, so much happened since then that you can't blame the person who gave the ball away 2. When the ball was played forward for the goal I don't really blame puncheon too much or not anymore than Luca. Looking behind them there was a man to each stoke player and then Delaney was spare who could've picked up Allen. 3. Delaney runs too far back allowing Allen space to set himself and pick his angle. 4. Agree Hennessy was on back foot too much but think his general position was okish. Should've got their quicker perhaps but if he have stayed more to the right then Allen would've taken an earlier shot to the left instead. Basically in general was a good goal and not much blame to be apportioned. Think Delaney for me is the one who stands out as he could see joe allens run from early, knew everyone else was being marked and should've gone to the ball rather than running away then going to the ball. Strikes me that he didn't have confidence in PVA to stop Ramadan turning and shooting so gambled that way rather than trusting the man marking. Delaney needed to run back to be the back-up in case PVA lost the 1-on-1 duel. He couldn't have just let the guy with the ball to settle it with PVA and take on Joe Allen cause he was spare. Maybe in retrospective it sounds better, but it's a tough call. Puncheon is definitely at fault. But it's mostly cause Puncheon is not a box-to-box type of player that can go up and down the pitch that fast. If you play him in that advanced position as box-to-box or AM then you know it's gonna be trouble. He should just patrol in front of the defence like many other playmakers do in their old days, closing spaces and just "being there" preventing shots or players like Allen. But in this case, it's unknown if that would have helped either. Neither he nor Milivojevic were EXTREMELY advanced and they could have, SHOULD HAVE, tracked down Allen. I agree with the OP that it was Puncheon's mistake, but I don't agree that he should have moved higher up the pitch to help Zaha. In fact, he should have stayed deeper and secured that space in front of the defence, as it's obvious he can't just sprint back fast enough in situations like this (nor can McArthur or anyone if they stay too advanced) Edited by mattteo (22 Feb 2017 12.54pm)
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mattteo

22 Feb 17 10.46am

Originally posted by cardiff eagle

Was interesting. My points would be:

2. When the ball was played forward for the goal I don't really blame puncheon too much or not anymore than Luca. Looking behind them there was a man to each stoke player and then Delaney was spare who could've picked up Allen.

3. Delaney runs too far back allowing Allen space to set himself and pick his angle.

Delaney needed to run back to be the back-up in case PVA lost the 1-on-1 duel. He couldn't have just let the guy with the ball to settle it with PVA and take on Joe Allen cause he was spare. Maybe in retrospective it sounds better, but it's a tough call. Puncheon is definitely at fault. But it's mostly cause Puncheon is not a box-to-box type of player that can go up and down the pitch that fast. If you play him in that advanced position as box-to-box or AM then you know it's gonna be trouble. He should just patrol in front of the defence like many other playmakers do in their old days, closing spaces and just "being there" preventing shots or players like Allen.
But in this case, it's unknown if that would have helped either. Neither he nor Milivojevic were EXTREMELY advanced and they could have, SHOULD HAVE, tracked down Allen.

I agree with the OP that it was Puncheon's mistake, but I don't agree that he should have moved higher up the pitch to help Zaha. In fact, he should have stayed deeper and secured that space in front of the defence, as it's obvious he can't just sprint back fast enough in situations like this (nor can McArthur or anyone if they stay too advanced)

Edited by mattteo (22 Feb 2017 12.54pm)

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Holmesdale 1989 22 Feb 17 11.13am
Great video, great effort.
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Holmesdale 1989

22 Feb 17 11.13am

Send a Private Message to Holmesdale 1989

Great video, great effort.

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keynesr Hampshire 22 Feb 17 11.25am
Absolutely fascinating, regardless of which player(s) may be to blame. Well done to the creator. Lets have more! Hopefully the Club can use this and similar videos when discussing etc with the players.
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keynesr

Hampshire 22 Feb 17 11.25am

Absolutely fascinating, regardless of which player(s) may be to blame. Well done to the creator. Lets have more! Hopefully the Club can use this and similar videos when discussing etc with the players.

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Mad4palace 23 Feb 17 12.10am
I too have gone back and done my own in-depth analysis of Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland: Attachment: Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland.mp4 (265.67Kb)
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Mad4palace

23 Feb 17 12.10am

I too have gone back and done my own in-depth analysis of Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland:

Attachment: Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland.mp4 (265.67Kb)

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cardiff eagle 23 Feb 17 6.30am
Originally posted by Mad4palace I too have gone back and done my own in-depth analysis of Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland: Absolutely love it!
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cardiff eagle

23 Feb 17 6.30am

Originally posted by Mad4palace

I too have gone back and done my own in-depth analysis of Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland:

Absolutely love it!

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dmendenhall_9 24 Feb 17 1.57pm
Could Ledley ever run? I mean actually run? I might be able to beat him in a footrace and I am being 100% honest. Originally posted by Mad4palace I too have gone back and done my own in-depth analysis of Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland:
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dmendenhall_9

24 Feb 17 1.57pm

Could Ledley ever run? I mean actually run? I might be able to beat him in a footrace and I am being 100% honest.

Originally posted by Mad4palace

I too have gone back and done my own in-depth analysis of Ledley and Tomkins vs Sunderland:

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Mad4palace 24 Feb 17 4.50pm
Originally posted by dmendenhall_9 Could Ledley ever run? I mean actually run? I might be able to beat him in a footrace and I am being 100% honest. It didn't used to be so noticeable but this season and last his lack of movement has been embarrassing. He's had injury problems, I think it's been his knee that's been the most reoccurring problem so I guess those injuries have caught up with him. But the worst thing is that he doesn't seem to have the positional sense to make up for his lack of pace. We can't afford to carry a player like that.
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Mad4palace

24 Feb 17 4.50pm

Originally posted by dmendenhall_9

Could Ledley ever run? I mean actually run? I might be able to beat him in a footrace and I am being 100% honest.

It didn't used to be so noticeable but this season and last his lack of movement has been embarrassing. He's had injury problems, I think it's been his knee that's been the most reoccurring problem so I guess those injuries have caught up with him. But the worst thing is that he doesn't seem to have the positional sense to make up for his lack of pace. We can't afford to carry a player like that.

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