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leifandersonshair Newport 02 Mar 17 1.46pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Most Capitalist countries in Europe have health services available to their populations. Capitalist countries have clearly provided better lives for their people than all the Communist countries put together. If you mean such countries as France, Sweden and Britain you're right. They do have excellent health services. Set up and managed via socialist principles of free at point of delivery. Check the mess of the American healthcare system for a truly capitalist system.
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leifandersonshair

Newport 02 Mar 17 1.46pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

Most Capitalist countries in Europe have health services available to their populations. Capitalist countries have clearly provided better lives for their people than all the Communist countries put together.

If you mean such countries as France, Sweden and Britain you're right. They do have excellent health services. Set up and managed via socialist principles of free at point of delivery.

Check the mess of the American healthcare system for a truly capitalist system.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Mar 17 2.02pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair If you mean such countries as France, Sweden and Britain you're right. They do have excellent health services. Set up and managed via socialist principles of free at point of delivery. Check the mess of the American healthcare system for a truly capitalist system. I agree that the USA needs better health provision for those who cannot afford to pay. Italy has a great health service too - I know, I've used it. Most European countries have good public health provision. It is simply untrue to pretend that people are worse off in Capitalist countries. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Mar 17 2.02pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

If you mean such countries as France, Sweden and Britain you're right. They do have excellent health services. Set up and managed via socialist principles of free at point of delivery.

Check the mess of the American healthcare system for a truly capitalist system.

I agree that the USA needs better health provision for those who cannot afford to pay. Italy has a great health service too - I know, I've used it. Most European countries have good public health provision. It is simply untrue to pretend that people are worse off in Capitalist countries.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 02 Mar 17 2.51pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 I agree that the USA needs better health provision for those who cannot afford to pay. Italy has a great health service too - I know, I've used it. Most European countries have good public health provision. It is simply untrue to pretend that people are worse off in Capitalist countries. But that isn't the argument being put forward. The truth is that we don't live in a "capitalist country" (nor are there any pure communist countries). And the health care systems that exist in most of continental Europe are the product of left wing policies espoused by social democrats. The British healthcare system is undeniably the product of socialist values. And the high quality healthcare provided in many countries is a function of higher taxes collected to be able to deliver the better provisions - none of which would exist in a purely capitalist country. Edited by OknotOK (02 Mar 2017 2.52pm) "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 02 Mar 17 2.51pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

But that isn't the argument being put forward. The truth is that we don't live in a "capitalist country" (nor are there any pure communist countries). And the health care systems that exist in most of continental Europe are the product of left wing policies espoused by social democrats.

The British healthcare system is undeniably the product of socialist values. And the high quality healthcare provided in many countries is a function of higher taxes collected to be able to deliver the better provisions - none of which would exist in a purely capitalist country.

Edited by OknotOK (02 Mar 2017 2.52pm)

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Mar 17 3.10pm
Originally posted by OknotOK But that isn't the argument being put forward. The truth is that we don't live in a "capitalist country" (nor are there any pure communist countries). And the health care systems that exist in most of continental Europe are the product of left wing policies espoused by social democrats. The British healthcare system is undeniably the product of socialist values. And the high quality healthcare provided in many countries is a function of higher taxes collected to be able to deliver the better provisions - none of which would exist in a purely capitalist country. Edited by OknotOK (02 Mar 2017 2.52pm) Of course we live in a Capitalist country, it is the basic nature of our system that defines it, not having absolutely every aspect of life conforming to some theory. Similarly the USSR was a Communist state. It is not 'undeniable' that the NHS was the product of socialist values. The Conservative Party manifesto in 1945 contained the following "The health services of the country will be made available to all citizens. Everyone will contribute to the cost, and no one will be denied the attention, the treatment or the appliances he requires because he cannot afford them. We propose to create a comprehensive health service covering the whole range of medical treatment from the general practitioner to the specialist, and from the hospital to convalescence and rehabilitation; and to introduce legislation for this purpose in the new Parliament." Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Mar 2017 3.11pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Mar 17 3.10pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

The British healthcare system is undeniably the product of socialist values. And the high quality healthcare provided in many countries is a function of higher taxes collected to be able to deliver the better provisions - none of which would exist in a purely capitalist country.

Edited by OknotOK (02 Mar 2017 2.52pm)

Of course we live in a Capitalist country, it is the basic nature of our system that defines it, not having absolutely every aspect of life conforming to some theory. Similarly the USSR was a Communist state.
It is not 'undeniable' that the NHS was the product of socialist values. The Conservative Party manifesto in 1945 contained the following "The health services of the country will be made available to all citizens. Everyone will contribute to the cost, and no one will be denied the attention, the treatment or the appliances he requires because he cannot afford them. We propose to create a comprehensive health service covering the whole range of medical treatment from the general practitioner to the specialist, and from the hospital to convalescence and rehabilitation; and to introduce legislation for this purpose in the new Parliament."

Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Mar 2017 3.11pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 02 Mar 17 3.40pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Of course we live in a Capitalist country, it is the basic nature of our system that defines it, not having absolutely every aspect of life conforming to some theory. Similarly the USSR was a Communist state. It is not 'undeniable' that the NHS was the product of socialist values. The Conservative Party manifesto in 1945 contained the following "The health services of the country will be made available to all citizens. Everyone will contribute to the cost, and no one will be denied the attention, the treatment or the appliances he requires because he cannot afford them. We propose to create a comprehensive health service covering the whole range of medical treatment from the general practitioner to the specialist, and from the hospital to convalescence and rehabilitation; and to introduce legislation for this purpose in the new Parliament." Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Mar 2017 3.11pm) We don't live in a pure capitalist state, nor are there many of those (if any) out there. The USSR may have been a pure communist state but it doesn't exist any more. Apparently you can deny then that the British healthcare is a product of socialist values (so it is in that sense not undeniable). But you're wrong to do so. Even if you could make the - very feeble - argument that the growth of socialism hadn't influenced the thinking of the Tory government in proposing universal healthcare, they didn't introduce it. The socialist Labour party did. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 02 Mar 17 3.40pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Edited by hedgehog50 (02 Mar 2017 3.11pm)

We don't live in a pure capitalist state, nor are there many of those (if any) out there. The USSR may have been a pure communist state but it doesn't exist any more.

Apparently you can deny then that the British healthcare is a product of socialist values (so it is in that sense not undeniable). But you're wrong to do so. Even if you could make the - very feeble - argument that the growth of socialism hadn't influenced the thinking of the Tory government in proposing universal healthcare, they didn't introduce it. The socialist Labour party did.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Mar 17 4.00pm
Originally posted by OknotOK We don't live in a pure capitalist state, nor are there many of those (if any) out there. The USSR may have been a pure communist state but it doesn't exist any more. Apparently you can deny then that the British healthcare is a product of socialist values (so it is in that sense not undeniable). But you're wrong to do so. Even if you could make the - very feeble - argument that the growth of socialism hadn't influenced the thinking of the Tory government in proposing universal healthcare, they didn't introduce it. The socialist Labour party did. We don't live in a 'pure' anything. But our economy is Capitalist based as are all the European countries who also have public health services. There are many people, myself included, who want a public health service, but we are not Socialists. It is a necessary service like schools, firemen, the armed forces, not necessarily 'socialist'. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Mar 17 4.00pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

We don't live in a pure capitalist state, nor are there many of those (if any) out there. The USSR may have been a pure communist state but it doesn't exist any more.

We don't live in a 'pure' anything. But our economy is Capitalist based as are all the European countries who also have public health services. There are many people, myself included, who want a public health service, but we are not Socialists. It is a necessary service like schools, firemen, the armed forces, not necessarily 'socialist'.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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