Latest CPFC accounts released

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Mar 17 2.52pm
. Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Mar 2017 2.54pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 23 Mar 17 2.52pm

Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Mar 2017 2.54pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 23 Mar 17 2.53pm
There's a few players who we'd rather not have and are only used when desperate in this division who are out of contract soon. Mutch and Ledley for a start. Hennessey is out of contract. Chungy? I know we have to add and/or replace but I see us in a decent position. Remy and Flamini will be gone unless Remy can show some fitness longer term. That's 6 who must be on Ł250k+ combined. We may only see 2 or maybe 3 at a push permanent players come in if we stay up but I'd rather them possibly come in and either nudge someone to the bench or be very close competition rather than no competition at all. Wickham will be back as well. Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Mar 2017 2.53pm) COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 23 Mar 17 2.53pm

There's a few players who we'd rather not have and are only used when desperate in this division who are out of contract soon.

Mutch and Ledley for a start. Hennessey is out of contract. Chungy?

I know we have to add and/or replace but I see us in a decent position. Remy and Flamini will be gone unless Remy can show some fitness longer term. That's 6 who must be on Ł250k+ combined.

We may only see 2 or maybe 3 at a push permanent players come in if we stay up but I'd rather them possibly come in and either nudge someone to the bench or be very close competition rather than no competition at all. Wickham will be back as well.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (23 Mar 2017 2.53pm)

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fozzaisere 23 Mar 17 2.54pm
As an accountant I am pretty intrigued by the notes disclosed in the group section. A) what company is smoke and mirrors and what property does it own that is charging CPFC rent. B) it mentions a few parent companies. Does anyone know which company actually holds the Stadium?
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fozzaisere

23 Mar 17 2.54pm

As an accountant I am pretty intrigued by the notes disclosed in the group section.

A) what company is smoke and mirrors and what property does it own that is charging CPFC rent.

B) it mentions a few parent companies. Does anyone know which company actually holds the Stadium?

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 2.54pm
Originally posted by OknotOK Wages does just seem wages and yes I have seen the Ł7m annual figure as well. I think there is an additional allowance based upon increasing commercial or match day income and possibly if you can inject further capital. If my numbers are even close to right then we would need to get rid of another Ł40k of wages off the weekly wage bill to have only(!) increased by Ł7m. But it would all be speculation about how much individual players are on (and assumes others didn't get rises). Edited by OknotOK (23 Mar 2017 2.34pm) C'mon...you have a spreadsheet, don't you? C'mon...let's be seeing it. If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 2.54pm

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Originally posted by OknotOK

Wages does just seem wages and yes I have seen the Ł7m annual figure as well. I think there is an additional allowance based upon increasing commercial or match day income and possibly if you can inject further capital.

If my numbers are even close to right then we would need to get rid of another Ł40k of wages off the weekly wage bill to have only(!) increased by Ł7m.

But it would all be speculation about how much individual players are on (and assumes others didn't get rises).

Edited by OknotOK (23 Mar 2017 2.34pm)

C'mon...you have a spreadsheet, don't you? C'mon...let's be seeing it.

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Mr_Flow London 23 Mar 17 3.08pm
Originally posted by fozzaisere A) what company is smoke and mirrors and what property does it own that is charging CPFC rent. I know that Tag (SP's old company) used to have a part of it called Smoke and Mirrors. Can't say who or what property they own and charge us rent for though.
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Mr_Flow

London 23 Mar 17 3.08pm

Originally posted by fozzaisere

A) what company is smoke and mirrors and what property does it own that is charging CPFC rent.

I know that Tag (SP's old company) used to have a part of it called Smoke and Mirrors. Can't say who or what property they own and charge us rent for though.

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Mar 17 3.18pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig C'mon...you have a spreadsheet, don't you? C'mon...let's be seeing it. I'm an accountant - of course I did a spreadsheet. But it is all speculation and most of it not very informed! In Summer: Benteke - Ł105k, Townsend - Ł70k, Tomkins - Ł40k, Mandanda - Ł50k, Remy - Ł60k Ł325k per week = Ł16.9m January: PvA - Ł60k, Schlupp - Ł60k, Sakho - Ł100k, Luka - Ł40k Ł260 per week = Ł6.8m for 6 months Out Bolasie - Ł40k, Jedi - Ł35k, Hangeland - Ł25k, Chamakh - Ł35k, Adebayor - Ł45k, Mariappa - Ł15k, McCarthyx2 - Ł40k, Gayle - Ł20k. Ł255k per week = Ł13.3m Net Ł10.4m increase So I would think by the end of the accounts we would still have gone significantly over the Ł7m increase cap. And I had forgotten Flamini in that as well. Maybe some of Souare's wages are covered by insurance given his injury but I don't know how it works for footballers. And that ignores the fact that our matchday income - in gate receipts at least - is likely to be down as we didn't have the cup run this season. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 23 Mar 17 3.18pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

C'mon...you have a spreadsheet, don't you? C'mon...let's be seeing it.

I'm an accountant - of course I did a spreadsheet. But it is all speculation and most of it not very informed!

In
Summer: Benteke - Ł105k, Townsend - Ł70k, Tomkins - Ł40k, Mandanda - Ł50k, Remy - Ł60k
Ł325k per week = Ł16.9m

January: PvA - Ł60k, Schlupp - Ł60k, Sakho - Ł100k, Luka - Ł40k
Ł260 per week = Ł6.8m for 6 months

Out
Bolasie - Ł40k, Jedi - Ł35k, Hangeland - Ł25k, Chamakh - Ł35k, Adebayor - Ł45k, Mariappa - Ł15k, McCarthyx2 - Ł40k, Gayle - Ł20k.
Ł255k per week = Ł13.3m

Net Ł10.4m increase

So I would think by the end of the accounts we would still have gone significantly over the Ł7m increase cap. And I had forgotten Flamini in that as well.

Maybe some of Souare's wages are covered by insurance given his injury but I don't know how it works for footballers.

And that ignores the fact that our matchday income - in gate receipts at least - is likely to be down as we didn't have the cup run this season.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 3.22pm
Originally posted by OknotOK I'm an accountant - of course I did a spreadsheet. But it is all speculation and most of it not very informed! In Summer: Benteke - Ł105k, Townsend - Ł70k, Tomkins - Ł40k, Mandanda - Ł50k, Remy - Ł60k Ł325k per week = Ł16.9m January: PvA - Ł60k, Schlupp - Ł60k, Sakho - Ł100k, Luka - Ł40k Ł260 per week = Ł6.8m for 6 months Out Bolasie - Ł40k, Jedi - Ł35k, Hangeland - Ł25k, Chamakh - Ł35k, Adebayor - Ł45k, Mariappa - Ł15k, McCarthyx2 - Ł40k, Gayle - Ł20k. Ł255k per week = Ł13.3m Net Ł10.4m increase So I would think by the end of the accounts we would still have gone significantly over the Ł7m increase cap. And I had forgotten Flamini in that as well. Maybe some of Souare's wages are covered by insurance given his injury but I don't know how it works for footballers. And that ignores the fact that our matchday income - in gate receipts at least - is likely to be down as we didn't have the cup run this season. Merci boocoo. So in your reading of it, large net outlays on transfer fees are largely IRRELEVANT for FFP? Correctio? (My edit was to change `large net losses' to `large net outlays -- think I over-interpreted your posts) Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (23 Mar 2017 3.57pm) If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 3.22pm

Originally posted by OknotOK

I'm an accountant - of course I did a spreadsheet. But it is all speculation and most of it not very informed!

In
Summer: Benteke - Ł105k, Townsend - Ł70k, Tomkins - Ł40k, Mandanda - Ł50k, Remy - Ł60k
Ł325k per week = Ł16.9m

January: PvA - Ł60k, Schlupp - Ł60k, Sakho - Ł100k, Luka - Ł40k
Ł260 per week = Ł6.8m for 6 months

Out
Bolasie - Ł40k, Jedi - Ł35k, Hangeland - Ł25k, Chamakh - Ł35k, Adebayor - Ł45k, Mariappa - Ł15k, McCarthyx2 - Ł40k, Gayle - Ł20k.
Ł255k per week = Ł13.3m

Net Ł10.4m increase

So I would think by the end of the accounts we would still have gone significantly over the Ł7m increase cap. And I had forgotten Flamini in that as well.

Maybe some of Souare's wages are covered by insurance given his injury but I don't know how it works for footballers.

And that ignores the fact that our matchday income - in gate receipts at least - is likely to be down as we didn't have the cup run this season.

Merci boocoo. So in your reading of it, large net outlays on transfer fees are largely IRRELEVANT for FFP? Correctio?

(My edit was to change `large net losses' to `large net outlays -- think I over-interpreted your posts)

Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (23 Mar 2017 3.57pm)

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Midlands Eagle 23 Mar 17 3.26pm
Originally posted by Mr_Flow I know that Tag (SP's old company) used to have a part of it called Smoke and Mirrors. Can't say who or what property they own and charge us rent for though. Smoke & Mirrors Group Ltd is controlled by Steve Parish. Could the property be the training ground?
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Midlands Eagle

23 Mar 17 3.26pm

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Originally posted by Mr_Flow

I know that Tag (SP's old company) used to have a part of it called Smoke and Mirrors. Can't say who or what property they own and charge us rent for though.

Smoke & Mirrors Group Ltd is controlled by Steve Parish. Could the property be the training ground?

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alaneagle1 Dunstable,Bedfordshire.England 23 Mar 17 3.44pm
Rudy I think Mutch,s contract runs outt June 2018. Palace 13th 2017/18.
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alaneagle1

Dunstable,Bedfordshire.England 23 Mar 17 3.44pm

Rudy I think Mutch,s contract runs outt June 2018.

Palace 13th 2017/18.

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Mr_Flow London 23 Mar 17 4.05pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Smoke & Mirrors Group Ltd is controlled by Steve Parish. Could the property be the training ground? Or the offices we use in central London?
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Mr_Flow

London 23 Mar 17 4.05pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Smoke & Mirrors Group Ltd is controlled by Steve Parish. Could the property be the training ground?

Or the offices we use in central London?

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OknotOK Cockfosters, London 23 Mar 17 4.07pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig Merci boocoo. So in your reading of it, large net outlays on transfer fees are largely IRRELEVANT for FFP? Correctio? (My edit was to change `large net losses' to `large net outlays -- think I over-interpreted your posts) Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (23 Mar 2017 3.57pm) Definitely not irrelevant but they just aren't all recognised in the P&L at one time. It's a quirk but the gains from sales are largely recognised all in the single period, but the amount paid out for purchases is split over the life of the contract (and the remainder can then be split again if the player signs a new contract). So that Ł50m we spent last summer will probably result in somewhere between Ł12.5m and Ł16.7m additional amortisation in the accounts for year end 30 June 2017. But even though our net cash spend was -Ł10m last summer, we will see a net "profit" for the summer transfers recognised in those accounts because all of the disposal proceeds from Yannick, Jedi, etc will be recognised. The best blogger I have found on football finances is Swiss Ramble [Link] He normally does a new one for each club when they release accounts so the next one for Palace might be up soon Edited by OknotOK (23 Mar 2017 4.08pm) "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
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OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 23 Mar 17 4.07pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

Merci boocoo. So in your reading of it, large net outlays on transfer fees are largely IRRELEVANT for FFP? Correctio?

(My edit was to change `large net losses' to `large net outlays -- think I over-interpreted your posts)

Edited by Ginger Pubic Wig (23 Mar 2017 3.57pm)

Definitely not irrelevant but they just aren't all recognised in the P&L at one time.

It's a quirk but the gains from sales are largely recognised all in the single period, but the amount paid out for purchases is split over the life of the contract (and the remainder can then be split again if the player signs a new contract).

So that Ł50m we spent last summer will probably result in somewhere between Ł12.5m and Ł16.7m additional amortisation in the accounts for year end 30 June 2017.

But even though our net cash spend was -Ł10m last summer, we will see a net "profit" for the summer transfers recognised in those accounts because all of the disposal proceeds from Yannick, Jedi, etc will be recognised.

The best blogger I have found on football finances is Swiss Ramble
[Link]

He normally does a new one for each club when they release accounts so the next one for Palace might be up soon

Edited by OknotOK (23 Mar 2017 4.08pm)

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 4.23pm
Thanks very much. I feel my vague understanding of it all is marginally less vague now. So it's very important to get better as a club so that the players' worth collectively goes up, so that when/if the time does come to flog them, they are better (or at least not much worse) balance sheet assets than when we took them on the books...cos presumably this accounting quirk ULTIMATELY catches up with you (and is why Sunderland are now in a bit of a mess due to perennial crapness but quite high net spending?) if you keep struggling? If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 23 Mar 17 4.23pm

Thanks very much. I feel my vague understanding of it all is marginally less vague now.

So it's very important to get better as a club so that the players' worth collectively goes up, so that when/if the time does come to flog them, they are better (or at least not much worse) balance sheet assets than when we took them on the books...cos presumably this accounting quirk ULTIMATELY catches up with you (and is why Sunderland are now in a bit of a mess due to perennial crapness but quite high net spending?) if you keep struggling?

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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