Race hate crime in Croydon.
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jamiemartin721  Reading 05 Apr 17 4.27pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
It is simply misleading and dangerous to publish statistics based on unsubstantiated reports from every Tom, Dick and Ali. You are the first to moan about anecdotal stories of black crime etc What I'm saying is that we shouldn't dismiss things out of hand. Obviously it needs further investigation and analysis. Political rhetoric isn't a reliable argument. The response should be 'to look deeper at the issue' and establish if there is a problem.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 4.30pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
And the reverse is equally true. First it was all Brexiters are Racists, now it's Brexit has caused a rise in attacks on foreigners. If you want to view things with an intellectual eye, you have to do it without prejudice. The simple fact is that mass immigration causes friction. It always has and it always will. This is just the latest spin. Well no, because someone is offering a reasonable empirical source to suggest something might be the case. That doesn't prove an issue, but its more reliable than a statement that effectively is an argument of belief. Home Office statistics are generally fairly reliable starting points, and if anything are biased more towards keeping crime figures low. Why would the home office manipulate statistics to show a rise in crime of 40%?
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 4.34pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
What I'm saying is that we shouldn't dismiss things out of hand. Obviously it needs further investigation and analysis. Political rhetoric isn't a reliable argument. The response should be 'to look deeper at the issue' and establish if there is a problem. The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 4.36pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit. Brexit is but a part of it.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Apr 17 4.40pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
The point is surely, that statistics of a very dubious nature are presented as facts and used to promote anti-Brexit propaganda. Albeit, that even if the statistics were ture, it is nonsense to jump to the conclusion that it is due to Brexit. Police reports and Home Office aren't exactly dubious sources. I quite agree with the later. That said if the rise coincided with the referendum result, it would be reasonable to look at a correlation of events in that period that could result in a rise in racial crimes.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 4.47pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Police reports and Home Office aren't exactly dubious sources. I quite agree with the later. That said if the rise coincided with the referendum result, it would be reasonable to look at a correlation of events in that period that could result in a rise in racial crimes. I'm not just going to drop this. Including every phone call or email reporting so called hate crimes in statistics is highly dubious. What is to stop any of the Remain propaganda machines to set up teams of emailers to bombard the police with false reports?
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 elgrande bedford 05 Apr 17 4.51pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
I'm not just going to drop this. Including every phone call or email reporting so called hate crimes in statistics is highly dubious. What is to stop any of the Remain propaganda machines to set up teams of emailers to bombard the police with false reports? And the fact they are not investigating these calls,they write down hate crime as soon as they get the call.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 5.09pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
And the fact they are not investigating these calls,they write down hate crime as soon as they get the call. It could be said that you are playing down the hate crime statistics and their relationship / correlation to Brexit because you don't want to feel culpable in some way (although you aren't) as this is an unintended consequence of your vote to leave. Easy to spin the argument around.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 05 Apr 17 5.23pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Well no, because someone is offering a reasonable empirical source to suggest something might be the case. That doesn't prove an issue, but its more reliable than a statement that effectively is an argument of belief. Home Office statistics are generally fairly reliable starting points, and if anything are biased more towards keeping crime figures low. Why would the home office manipulate statistics to show a rise in crime of 40%? I have observed that statistics are always far more 'reliable' and 'relevant' when they support ones own beliefs. Putting things into perspective is important.
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Kermit8  Hevon 05 Apr 17 5.38pm |
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Any rise in 'hate' crimes here since Brexit will seem like a tambourine-infested Kumbaya picnic compared to what will be unleashed in France should the Far Right/Le Pen have their 'moment' and win the election. And it won't be just those of an Arabic hue that will be the recipients of their 'celebrations'
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Apr 17 5.46pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Any rise in 'hate' crimes here since Brexit will seem like a tambourine-infested Kumbaya picnic compared to what will be unleashed in France should the Far Right/Le Pen have their 'moment' and win the election. And it won't be just those of an Arabic hue that will be the recipients of their 'celebrations' The relative success of people like Le Pen is a result of the hapless policies of the liberal left leaders of the EU. Similar situation in places like Sweden.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Apr 17 5.52pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I have observed that statistics are always far more 'reliable' and 'relevant' when they support ones own beliefs. Putting things into perspective is important. Does this mean we can ignore the statistics about immigration as we don't know how reliable the information the home office receives is?
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