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April 19 2024 12.17am

Shock! A Corbyn policy worth supporting.

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 06 Apr 17 2.48pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by regal_eagle

Labour in promise to spend more of your money shocker!

Depends on who you are? If you're not one of the small % with children attending private school then all you'll get is money back (assuming that the pledge is funded as intended).

It is utterly bizarre that private schools are exempt from VAT. It cannot be justified ideologically.*

And there is *some* evidence that universal provision of free school meals can lead to an overall improvement in standards. There appears to be some debate at the moment about the exact magnitude of that improvement and whether the studies were reasonable for extrapolation. I guess more research is needed.

But the worst that would happen would be a tax break largely for the very rich would be taken away (VAT exemption leading to a reduction in fees) and replaced with a benefit mostly given to the middle class (FSM). So that doesn't seem a particularly bad thing.

*Having said that it would be interesting to see the projections for the number who are likely to leave the private school system and the costs associated with that for the state. I've not seen the numbers touted by the Head of the Private School Association this morning about 20% being from families with less than £50k but I would think it is very unlikely. Even if the average fees are £10k (which is the lower end of the scale) then the vast majority of those on under £50k a year would find that completely unaffordable. So it suggests that actually they are on bursaries/scholarships - which would mean they wouldn't be affected by increases in fees to the same extent?

Edited by OknotOK (06 Apr 2017 2.51pm)

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Apr 17 2.58pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So are you saying that if you are working class and you do well in education that you have access to the same opportunities that rich kids in private schools have?

I don't believe that is the case at all. None of the statistics back that up for example.

People talk about meritocracy but within society the reality is very different.

I don't think you could entirely ban private education but you could certainly make it more difficult and not state supported.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Apr 2017 2.42pm)

No.
I'm saying that you will have winners and losers in any system you employ and that those who lose will always want to change the system and those that win will always want to fix the system to benefit their offspring.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 06 Apr 17 3.01pm

I don't think private schools should get tax breaks. I don't think charities should get tax breaks. I don't think all primary school children should get free dinners.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 06 Apr 17 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Will the fat kids get free meals as well?

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Apr 17 3.15pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

No.
I'm saying that you will have winners and losers in any system you employ and that those who lose will always want to change the system and those that win will always want to fix the system to benefit their offspring.

I agree with you that any system will have winners and losers....Yep.

However what is not ok is when the system is rigged so that some are unfairly advantaged to be winners over the rest.

The state should ensure that all children have equality of opportunity.

Equality of outcome is wrong but equality of opportunity should be fought for tooth and nail.


Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Apr 2017 3.16pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Apr 17 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Will the fat kids get free meals as well?

They get two.

They have the greater need and stomach space.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Apr 17 3.33pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I agree with you that any system will have winners and losers....Yep.

However what is not ok is when the system is rigged so that some are unfairly advantaged to be winners over the rest.

The state should ensure that all children have equality of opportunity.

Equality of outcome is wrong but equality of opportunity should be fought for tooth and nail.


Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Apr 2017 3.16pm)

Have you read Animal Farm?

 

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View nobody's Profile nobody Flag sussex 06 Apr 17 3.40pm Send a Private Message to nobody Add nobody as a friend

Nice idea but the cost of putting the kitchens back in all the schools that have ripped them out for extra classroom space would make it too expensive.

Plus the extra staff needed because teachers were refusing to do 'dinner duty'.

 

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View Nest's Profile Nest Flag 06 Apr 17 3.56pm Send a Private Message to Nest Add Nest as a friend

Originally posted by nobody

Nice idea but the cost of putting the kitchens back in all the schools that have ripped them out for extra classroom space would make it too expensive.

Plus the extra staff needed because teachers were refusing to do 'dinner duty'.

House of Commons Library research estimates that free school meals for all primary school children would cost between £700 million and £900 million
Introducing VAT on private school fees would raise £1.5 billion a year – more than enough to cover the expected cost of the meals.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 06 Apr 17 4.16pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Have you read Animal Farm?

Yes....and Orwell of course was a socialist.

He was against the abuses of power by elites....which is pretty much the system we have now.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 06 Apr 17 4.41pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

A more sensible option would be for all the MP's and Peers to pay true costs in the subsidised restaurants and bars in the Parliament Buildings.....

that'll fund a good few school meals for the needy and let the Politian's lead by example.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View OknotOK's Profile OknotOK Flag Cockfosters, London 06 Apr 17 4.47pm Send a Private Message to OknotOK Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add OknotOK as a friend

Originally posted by nobody

Nice idea but the cost of putting the kitchens back in all the schools that have ripped them out for extra classroom space would make it too expensive.

Plus the extra staff needed because teachers were refusing to do 'dinner duty'.

Staff already have to do dinner duty - whether people have free school meals or not. The kids still have to eat.

And school meals are already free for Reception - Year 2. So this would just be extending it. Schools that don't have kitchens will have to continue doing what they are doing now - outsourcing school meals.

 


"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

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