sorry but normal cannabis with nothing changed in it, and with the same laws abided like booze, ie no driving etc, theres nothing wrong with it imo.

causes no bodily cancers like the other two and if anything is now being proved to fight illnesses such as cancer if consumed albeit in a different way.

forget my argument and comparison to the other two, what the hell is wrong with natural weed?

Mental illness and the tendency for its users to forgo the use of capitals for no apparent reason.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Might help to ease the stress on food banks

Lend me a Tenor

31 May to 3 June 2017

John McIntosh Arts Centre
London Oratory School
SW6 1RX

with Superfly in the chorus
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I think you bring a balanced view to the debate. It's one that I'm always suspicious of because the legalise supporters nearly always come across as users and so have an inherent self interest.

As someone who has never smoked pot, indeed never smoked a full cigarette I still came from parents who were confirmed 40 a day Benson and Hedges merchants for most of their days. So like most of us I've seen the damage that smoking habits have. I've known druggies and I've rarely been impressed by what I regard as the personal weakness of it.

Nevertheless I've also heard some good arguments like yours and Jamie's on this topic that have moved my view a little on exactly what the model society should use in this respect....Well moved it to a place where I'm honestly not sure anymore.

I do feel the message that society gives to its youngsters about what it regards as ideal behaviour is important. Some families contain bad examples and surely the state...while being very careful to not be political...should stand up for and push what is healthy at least.

The current practice you describe, is tantamount to surrender due to a lack of willingness to really tackle the problem....though of course if they did, in effect, it would be criminalizing a lot of people who are...for the most part only harming themselves.....And in the case of those irregular and small users probably not even harming themselves at all.

That said I don't think it's ok to say drug taking of anything recreational is a good thing. As a teacher I always recommended that regular smoking or alcohol were poor habits. That exercise and sport and study were lifelong useful and healthy pursuits. You try to move them towards the light and away from the darkness...while recognising that, quite rightly, our influence is extremely limited compared to families. I think in society...outside of good families and rather exclusive schools... we are losing that concept of any responsibility for 'building' basic healthy attitudes....That said I know schools still try but it's a voice that's dimming its intensity.

So what is the ethical position for the state to take?

I'm not sure any position is ideal. I could probably live with a total legalisation of all drugs that came with a strong ethical commitment and remit from schools to push an anti drugs attitude.....But I still feel that this is the state making money from..in some cases misery... as it does from smoking and alcohol.

Or perhaps I could live with building more prisons and drawing a line in the sand and saying....from this date...we will send users to prison and no excuses...make your choice now....and invest in rehabilitation and so on. This would at least be the state taking a stand.....Maybe tough love would work in the long run?...If there were some love behind the initial punch.....But prison usually wrecks lives so perhaps this is nonsense.

What course of action ultimately reduces the number of drug takers within society? What course of action best promotes healthy attitudes for our youngsters?....who in many examples are extremely impressible.

All I know is that I'm not really happy with where we are right now.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2017 10.18am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I'm not actually sure where I stand on the issue, to be honest. I've taken drugs in the past, very rarely now, but I still smoke 2 a day (nothing on your parents!) and have a few drinks at the weekend. The thing with this issue is that it kind of defines where you stand on the Authoritarian vs Libertarian front, rather than being an issue of left vs right.

I tend to be more libertarian, I believe that citizens' personal freedom is essential and it is up the individual what they ingest/inhale. The problem that you have with this position is that the drug taker's personal freedom could impact on the freedom of others, because society may have to pay for the cost of the healthcare/rehabilitation of the drug user.

I would prefer that we had a system of personal responsibility where the state says "If you want to take drugs despite being informed of the consequences, that's your choice. But don't expect the state to pay for your rehabilitation." It's an absolutely toxic policy in this country but some form of privatised healthcare would deter people much more than prison IMO. If you knew that drugs could ultimately cost you everything, rather than having the backup of rehab/healthcare free-of-charge, I think that would be a massive put off. Why should responsible members of society pay for drugs rehab for irresponsible drug users? The legalisation of drugs would at least bring in some funds for this.

It's a really tough issue, and I can see both sides of the argument. In countries where drugs are linked to extraordinary sentences in prison, you just don't take them. It's not worth it. To that extent, I agree with you that the current position is unacceptable. I would rather see enforced prohibition than what we have now, which is a sham and only benefits criminals.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Not in my experience. Most 'dealers' tend to be friends or friends of a friend. Whilst I've gotten other drugs from cannabis dealers in the past, its usually because I asked them if they knew someone or could help. Also usually other fairly soft drugs (E, Acid or Speed).

Most people selling cannabis don't generally sell things like heroin or crack. That's a very different market, and game. Further up the chain, when you're talking bulk its the case, but then that doesn't tend to be 'street retail' (i.e. someone who deals in kilos of weed might also deal in bulk anything).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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