Jacob Rees-Mogg
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 CambridgeEagle  Sydenham 18 Jul 17 10.22am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
How 'equal' do you propose to make us then?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 18 Jul 17 10.23am |
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Originally posted by leifandersonshair
And I believe it should be termed 'ideologically driven cuts to essential public services'. But you are correct- no government restrains expenditure to make the electorate miserable. That doesn't mean they don't make the electorate miserable regardless. Anyone who refuses to admit that this government hasn't inflicted misery and hardship on some of the most vulnerable in society is delusional. They (probably) didn't mean to. But they did.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Jul 17 10.41am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Aim for similar levels to Denmark. Much better off society. Denmark has the highest direct and indirect taxes in the world, and you don’t need to be a high earner to make it into the top tax bracket of 56% (to which you must add 25% value-added tax, the highest energy taxes in the world, car import duty of 180%, with of course state interference into almost every aspect of your life.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Stirlingsays 18 Jul 17 10.44am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
It isn't going to happen.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Willo Online South coast - west of Brighton. 18 Jul 17 10.44am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I would point out that their limited successes since 2010 were driven by the Lib Dems and tempered by Tory reluctance. Simple JSA and employment stats tell little of the true story. They don't delve into the nature of work, the diminished rights of workers, the precarious nature of much of these new "jobs", the fact that much of the increase is due to people being forced into self employment or so called "gig work", the falling real wages and living standards, the lack of investment in the economy, training and jobs by the private sector. Yet meanwhile bankers and CEOs continue to increase their bonuses and the multiple of their earnings over and above their lowest paid members of staff. The fact that 23 million adults earn less than £11,500 isn't a good thing. To break that down, that's less that £221 a week, less than £44 a (working) day, less than £6.30 an hour (assuming a 7 hour day), which is over £1.20 less than the hourly minimum wage, and £2.15 lower than the current living wage outside of London. So either 23 million adults are working part time (many forced to do so I might add) and earning less than they need to live, or either the government is allowing shoddy working practices where people are effectively getting paid below the legal minimum wage. I'd suggest a mixture of the two problems, both overlooked by the Tories in favour of trumpeting misleading stats. Total and utter 'Corbynite' hogwash, the likes we have come to expect in recent months so hardly surprising. At the end of the day my party has built it's success on being the party of low taxation, controlling public expenditure to what we can afford, which creates the conditions in which productivity and growth can increase and according living standards. We will only get further increases in living standards if we stick to policies that have worked so well for us. You and I are completely polarised politically with me Pro cuts in corporation tax and see NO harm in CEO's/Bankers/wealth creators being rewarded for their efforts.At the end of the day I am on the right-wing of the Conservative party ! You have your view, I have mine and never the twain shall meet.I respect your right to post your views even though I fervently disagree with them. As I said earlier, hand rather painful with gout so I am advised to limit my posts until the inflammation subsides.Darned gout !!!! Edited by Willo (18 Jul 2017 10.46am)
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 18 Jul 17 10.54am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Denmark has the highest direct and indirect taxes in the world, and you don’t need to be a high earner to make it into the top tax bracket of 56% (to which you must add 25% value-added tax, the highest energy taxes in the world, car import duty of 180%, with of course state interference into almost every aspect of your life. And yet they have a much better standard of living and score higher than us on pretty much every index that measures such things.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Jul 17 10.58am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
No. Don't be facetious. I've only spoken about reducing inequality not creating perfect equality. Inequality is too high and creates inefficiencies and social tension. Why don't you aspire to 'perfect equality'?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 18 Jul 17 11.01am |
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Originally posted by Willo
Total and utter 'Corbynite' hogwash, the likes we have come to expect in recent months so hardly surprising. At the end of the day my party has built it's success on being the party of low taxation, controlling public expenditure to what we can afford, which creates the conditions in which productivity and growth can increase and according living standards. We will only get further increases in living standards if we stick to policies that have worked so well for us. You and I are completely polarised politically with me Pro cuts in corporation tax and see NO harm in CEO's/Bankers/wealth creators being rewarded for their efforts.At the end of the day I am on the right-wing of the Conservative party ! You have your view, I have mine and never the twain shall meet.I respect your right to post your views even though I fervently disagree with them. As I said earlier, hand rather painful with gout so I am advised to limit my posts until the inflammation subsides.Darned gout !!!! Edited by Willo (18 Jul 2017 10.46am) Worked well? What planet are you living on? Are you ignoring reality on purpose? Living standards have fallen under this government. Real wages are lower. Also, what success? The Tories haven't won a properly workable majority since 1992, and their policies have been nothing short of a resounding failure in economic and public sector service terms. Those people you mentioned are wealth creators, they are more along the lines of rent-seekers. Their pay is way in excess of what it would be under an efficient market and they end up with pay completely out of line with their performance. The data is quite clear on this. Your simplistic ideological analysis is what's wrong with this current government and as a self proclaimed member of the "right-wing" of the Tories it's hardly surprising that you continue to make points devoid of any substance but full of myth-busted rhetoric.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Jul 17 11.03am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
And yet they have a much better standard of living and score higher than us on pretty much every index that measures such things. They also have the highest level of personal debt in the world and one of the highest rates of suicide and use of anti-depressant drugs.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 18 Jul 17 11.04am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Why don't you aspire to 'perfect equality'? Because that places restrictions on people's freedoms. Restrictions of freedoms and opportunities and wasted potential is the result at either extreme. The point is that the UK's current high level of inequality is bad for the economy and bad for society.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 18 Jul 17 11.07am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Because that places restrictions on people's freedoms. Restrictions of freedoms and opportunities and wasted potential is the result at either extreme. The point is that the UK's current high level of inequality is bad for the economy and bad for society. We getting somewhere now. We both agree that so called 'equality' restricts freedom. Yet you champion the myth that making people what is called 'equal' solves more problems than it creates.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 18 Jul 17 11.16am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
They also have the highest level of personal debt in the world and one of the highest rates of suicide and use of anti-depressant drugs. They consistently top the happiness index and other such measures and have high levels of disposable income. Indeed they have managed to increase levels of household savings over the past few years and now save over 5% of their disposable incomes (in the UK it's just under negative 1%, so we're eating into our savings). Their household debt has also been falling at a decent rate over the past few years. Their high levels of savings and pensions allow a buffer should rates increase, and display an ability to borrow to invest when rates are virtually zero but live within their means on a current basis and operate household surpluses. Their household "net-worth" i.e. assets less liabilities, is also higher than ours in the UK, meaning more of an ability to withstand house market dips.
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