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Charlie Gard

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View Mr_Gristle's Profile Mr_Gristle Flag In the land of Whelk Eaters 11 Jul 17 1.21pm Send a Private Message to Mr_Gristle Add Mr_Gristle as a friend

I can't help feeling that this whole saga has crossed the line from being about the welfare of an infant who is unable to exist (I don't use the term "live" deliberately) without permanent life support to being about the wants and needs of his parents.

I'm glad that in my parenting career to date, I've never had to face what the Gards are having to deal with. Still, I'm convinced that they are no longer acting solely in the child's interests. I also think they're being swept along in the media bubble that now surrounds them and this too is not something that's being done with the child's interests at heart.

The massed ranks of expert medical and legal opinion is once again being portrayed by some media elements as being a malign force.

It's all starting to look a bit shabby, to be honest.


Edited by Mr_Gristle (11 Jul 2017 1.22pm)

 


Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 11 Jul 17 1.37pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

If there is treatment in the US, even if it fails which is highly likely, then let him go if that is what the parents want.

Because the poor lad will die anyway but at least if used as some kind of guinea pig then the results may mean better help for the kids in the future with the same condition and at least then his mum and dad will know they have exhausted all routes and something positive could still come out of it.

 


Big chest and massive boobs

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 11 Jul 17 1.49pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

I think that the parents are being incredibly selfish.

I can't condemn them for it though

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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wordup Flag 11 Jul 17 1.51pm

Originally posted by Michaelawt85

What are people's opinions on this case?

Didn't follow it from the very start but having picked the story up I am starting to have very strong thoughts on this.

1. The parents and their supporters are starting to turn this into a circus and about themselves rather than what is best for this child

2. Trump , the pope et al should keep their opinions to themselves

3. Why is it being dragged out all over the media. Should be kept private between the hospital, family and courts.

4. The very good name of GOSH is being dragged through the mud and trampled on. I had a child of mine treated there as a day old baby . The work they do is fantastic. It's a hospital like no other when you walk through the door and see some of the sites in there you cannot help but feel utterly humbled by what they are dealing with on an hourly basis there.

They clearly love their son but I feel they are being selfish and have a mentality that he's theirs, they own him and can do what they like with him. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Thoughts?

1 and 3 - It's their child and they clearly care deeply about him and want to give him a decent shot. It may be that in doing so the attention paid to this and the coverage can get a bit unwieldy. I on't agree that they've intentionally turned it into a media circus and all about them them.

4- Your experience of GOSH may not mirror theirs. At the end of the day hospitals have budgets and sadly they're not solely about 'what's the best for the child'. If this family can get access to treatment that may improve the life of their child then I don't blame them for fighting for it. You could argue that it would be a dereliction of duty if they didn't.


They're in such a terrible spot and I think people should pause before throwing around some of the terms they've used to described this family in suffering. Then again with the focus on the nation on them I can see why there are strong emotions on all sides.

 

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View Michaelawt85's Profile Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 11 Jul 17 1.59pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

If there is treatment in the US, even if it fails which is highly likely, then let him go if that is what the parents want.

Because the poor lad will die anyway but at least if used as some kind of guinea pig then the results may mean better help for the kids in the future with the same condition and at least then his mum and dad will know they have exhausted all routes and something positive could still come out of it.

From reading more about the case today the treatment hadn't even been tested on mice.
I totally 'get' what you are saying. Treatment and research has to start somewhere and over the generations there have been plenty of treatments which people have initially dismissed which later prove to be beneficial.

But.. there is something deeply uncomfortable about the parents having the 'right' to do this. From what I understand the child is unable to cry or express in any way whether he's in any form of pain. Hence doctors saying in their initial judgement they don't know whether he's in any pain or not. His breathing activity which could be an indicator can't be looked at to help as it's a machine performing that act for him. The treatment could help future cases but it could leave him to die an absolutely hideous death. All this is ifs, buts and maybes but I personally don't feel it's right to do that to any child and for what ends. Essentially turn them into a lab rat.

 


When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 11 Jul 17 2.07pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Michaelawt85

From reading more about the case today the treatment hadn't even been tested on mice.
I totally 'get' what you are saying. Treatment and research has to start somewhere and over the generations there have been plenty of treatments which people have initially dismissed which later prove to be beneficial.

But.. there is something deeply uncomfortable about the parents having the 'right' to do this. From what I understand the child is unable to cry or express in any way whether he's in any form of pain. Hence doctors saying in their initial judgement they don't know whether he's in any pain or not. His breathing activity which could be an indicator can't be looked at to help as it's a machine performing that act for him. The treatment could help future cases but it could leave him to die an absolutely hideous death. All this is ifs, buts and maybes but I personally don't feel it's right to do that to any child and for what ends. Essentially turn them into a lab rat.

Better parents than the state surely?

 

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bubble wrap Flag Carparks in South East London 11 Jul 17 3.21pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

If there is treatment in the US, even if it fails which is highly likely, then let him go if that is what the parents want.

Because the poor lad will die anyway but at least if used as some kind of guinea pig then the results may mean better help for the kids in the future with the same condition and at least then his mum and dad will know they have exhausted all routes and something positive could still come out of it.

Would be the easiest thing to do. But if it is going to cause Charlie further suffering its not the right thing to do.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Jul 17 3.36pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Michaelawt85

This is the thing and it's a very difficult area to discuss. But it's so they don't live with the what if. What about the child. He is being kept alive by a machine and has absolutely no quality of life and never will have. The treatment may help some of the symptoms but it will not cure him or make him get better in that sense. His mother keeps talking about him being able to ride a bike. I can understand she had that dream for her child when she gave birth but eventually reality and rational thinking needs to be paramount over your emotions. Anyone can be kept going by a machine doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I can't be alone in thinking the time they have left with him could be spent actually being at his side instead of doing the rounds of t.v. shows and shouting out in court rooms.

I make you right on all counts in each of your posts.

We lost two and later had one 13 weeks prem.

This family has another child. In the end they will have to move on as they appear to be causing suffering to Charlie and must be neglecting all other areas of their family life. Charlie too must be allowed to move on. And their other child should not have to live indefinitely in the shadow of what is evidently a hopeless case.

Doctors don't give up easily and GOSH is a fine institution. The parents are ruining the lives of everyone involved and nosey ill-informed outsiders voicing opinions and encouraging them is more than selfish.

 

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View Michaelawt85's Profile Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 11 Jul 17 4.22pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I make you right on all counts in each of your posts.

We lost two and later had one 13 weeks prem.

This family has another child. In the end they will have to move on as they appear to be causing suffering to Charlie and must be neglecting all other areas of their family life. Charlie too must be allowed to move on. And their other child should not have to live indefinitely in the shadow of what is evidently a hopeless case.

Doctors don't give up easily and GOSH is a fine institution. The parents are ruining the lives of everyone involved and nosey ill-informed outsiders voicing opinions and encouraging them is more than selfish.

If I didn't know differently I would think they had the Mccanns pr team running this. Funds (in excess of £2million raised which they have access to) but have asked for more to cover legal fees and it was then revealed their legal representatives are working pro bono. More money requested to pay for the Pastor from the US to come over and pray at the child's bedside. GOSH said no to this and r He parents took to all types of social media to complain how unfair it was until the hospital eventually backed down. The father at court yesterday with the child's cuddly toy placed in his jacket pocket . That's what I mean by circus. It's a hospital. Goodness only knows what the parents and families visiting their own children on the same ward must be thinking of all this intrusion. The mum placing the child's passport in his hand saying he's ready and wanting to go to America and taking a photo for Twitter of the whole thing. People react differently to things and hopefully I will be lucky enough to never have to be in their shoes but I can't help but feel it's turned into a situation of us against the professionals / state. Alot of people hitching their wagon to this particular campaign are also very anti establishment anti state and quite simply they are against the state or legal body having any say over this poor child's treatment .

Edited by Michaelawt85 (11 Jul 2017 4.23pm)

 


When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 11 Jul 17 4.32pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

Better parents than the state surely?

Better the doctors than the parents?

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 11 Jul 17 4.50pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by chris123

Better parents than the state surely?

Because the parents are in a position to view this objectively. The comment from the very erudite mother on TV was 'a parent knows what their child wants'. Really? Sure there is a bond but there is also a great deal of wishful thinking (I like to pretend my kids have brains for example).

 

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View Michaelawt85's Profile Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 11 Jul 17 4.56pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

Because the parents are in a position to view this objectively. The comment from the very erudite mother on TV was 'a parent knows what their child wants'. Really? Sure there is a bond but there is also a great deal of wishful thinking (I like to pretend my kids have brains for example).

My children are older than charlie gard but if I asked them what they want replies would range from sweets to a certain toy to a trip out somewhere or maybe a friend round for a sleepover. This child cannot communicate in any way shape or form. Is only 10 months old so wouldn't form much of a rational response anyway and even if he was older no one would be having these types of conversations about life or death with a child. More crucially and very sadly he is completely unable now or in the future of doing any of the things a completely healthy or even another child with some disabilities can do. I am only starting to skirt round these kind of topics with my own mother and she's 66 and I am 32!! She has health problems and I am the next of kin and should the worst happen it will be on my shoulders to make the call. You have to think to yourself would the other person want to live like this. I am pretty sure no one would to be honest

Edited by Michaelawt85 (11 Jul 2017 4.58pm)

 


When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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