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April 24 2024 4.06pm

Ban the veil?

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jul 17 2.23pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Indeed, but I don't see a lot of right wingers supporting wider women's rights from access to abortion, rape conviction rates and services in the UK, the disparity in pay despite the equal act 40 odd years ago.


The veil issue is straightforward for me. The others you mention not so much.
Rape is a difficult one as it is hard to prove. Some women don't do their sisters any favours by claiming rape falsely.
Abortion is tricky because there are the rights of two and maybe three individuals to consider. I favour the right to abortion within a time frame but I wouldn't actively encourage it. The religious angle is irrelevant.
Right wingers generally, I don't speak for or even necessarily align myself with.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 12 Jul 17 3.37pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


The veil issue is straightforward for me. The others you mention not so much.
Rape is a difficult one as it is hard to prove. Some women don't do their sisters any favours by claiming rape falsely.
Abortion is tricky because there are the rights of two and maybe three individuals to consider. I favour the right to abortion within a time frame but I wouldn't actively encourage it. The religious angle is irrelevant.
Right wingers generally, I don't speak for or even necessarily align myself with.

Rape convictions in the UK are staggeringly low, because the system is so easily stacked against the victim in terms of technicalities of law, and a history of trying to place the blame onto the victim.

The number of false accusations are staggeringly low compared to failed convictions, or cases where charges aren't brought. People are falsely accused (and convicted of murder) and that hasn't affected sentencing, or conviction rates.

Society really fails women when it comes to justice for sexual offences, and in terms of protecting society from sexual offenders who are convicted.

And its because they're women. When men are convicted of male on male rape, the sentence is usually reflects the seriousness of sexual violation. Attempts to blame the victim aren't accepted in the same way either.

The veil is a superficial issue. Its an item of clothing and is a minority of women affected - Actual issues that directly affect women are far more important.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jul 17 3.51pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Rape convictions in the UK are staggeringly low, because the system is so easily stacked against the victim in terms of technicalities of law, and a history of trying to place the blame onto the victim.

The number of false accusations are staggeringly low compared to failed convictions, or cases where charges aren't brought. People are falsely accused (and convicted of murder) and that hasn't affected sentencing, or conviction rates.

Society really fails women when it comes to justice for sexual offences, and in terms of protecting society from sexual offenders who are convicted.

And its because they're women. When men are convicted of male on male rape, the sentence is usually reflects the seriousness of sexual violation. Attempts to blame the victim aren't accepted in the same way either.

The veil is a superficial issue. Its an item of clothing and is a minority of women affected - Actual issues that directly affect women are far more important.

That is an opinion I don't share. It is a symbol of female oppression.
Rape is not and can never be as clear cut as say murder. This is about proving consent and that requires reading the mind of the individual.

 

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View Frickin Saweet's Profile Frickin Saweet Flag South Cronx 12 Jul 17 3.53pm Send a Private Message to Frickin Saweet Add Frickin Saweet as a friend

Originally posted by npn

Agreed.

I see no reason to ban it specifically, but I do agree it should not be exempt from places where faces must be uncovered for security purposes (banks, border controls, etc). In other words, it should have no special status either for or against, it's just another face covering. Personally I'd like to see all face covering banned (ski masks, balaclavas, etc) in all but exceptional circumstances - it tends to be used only to intimidate or avoid identification.

would that include HF's scarves wrapped around their faces or are match days exceptional circumstances?

 

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View npn's Profile npn Flag Crowborough 12 Jul 17 3.55pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Originally posted by Frickin Saweet

would that include HF's scarves wrapped around their faces or are match days exceptional circumstances?

nope, they'd be banned too (primarily because they look cockish). That would just be a pleasant side effect

 

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Pussay Patrol Flag 12 Jul 17 4.11pm

Although I think there's no place in society for it I wouldn't ban it, it only gives the religious nutters more ammunition and next thing they are murdering people in the street just as happened in France and I don't think it's a road we should go down

 


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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 12 Jul 17 4.16pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

There will be a lot of very upset brides if they do!

 


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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 12 Jul 17 4.27pm


It's ridiculous to ban clothing, unless it is for indecency reasons.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 12 Jul 17 4.51pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is an opinion I don't share. It is a symbol of female oppression.
Rape is not and can never be as clear cut as say murder. This is about proving consent and that requires reading the mind of the individual.

Rape is very much a means of female oppression, by men. Its the forcible oppression of their right to select who they can have sex with. Women generally are targeted because of the power the offender has physically, and a sense of a lack of power in the real world. Its a process of dehumanisation and objectification that is a direct assault on the rights of women - Its not a symbol of oppression, its an act of oppression.

Although I agree with the veil. My concern remains that people only bring up feminist issues when it fits their 'agenda'. Notably one that is anti-Muslim and only focused on Muslims - because they're the acceptable target of the day.

For the record I'm pretty much anti-religious, and regard most of the dogma of Western Religion as equally absurd, but I don't think its fair to pick and choose - Just dump the lot, Christian nonsense, Jewish Nonsense, Muslim Nonsense, Hindu Nonsense etc.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 12 Jul 17 4.58pm

Originally posted by npn

Agreed.

I see no reason to ban it specifically, but I do agree it should not be exempt from places where faces must be uncovered for security purposes (banks, border controls, etc). In other words, it should have no special status either for or against, it's just another face covering. Personally I'd like to see all face covering banned (ski masks, balaclavas, etc) in all but exceptional circumstances - it tends to be used only to intimidate or avoid identification.

Personally, I'd start with baseball caps on anyone who is British, and 'humour' on T-shirts. And by ban, I mean summery execution, by rape stick.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jul 17 5.04pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Rape is very much a means of female oppression, by men. Its the forcible oppression of their right to select who they can have sex with. Women generally are targeted because of the power the offender has physically, and a sense of a lack of power in the real world. Its a process of dehumanisation and objectification that is a direct assault on the rights of women - Its not a symbol of oppression, its an act of oppression.

Although I agree with the veil. My concern remains that people only bring up feminist issues when it fits their 'agenda'. Notably one that is anti-Muslim and only focused on Muslims - because they're the acceptable target of the day.

For the record I'm pretty much anti-religious, and regard most of the dogma of Western Religion as equally absurd, but I don't think its fair to pick and choose - Just dump the lot, Christian nonsense, Jewish Nonsense, Muslim Nonsense, Hindu Nonsense etc.

Rape might well be female oppression but it is still hard to prove in many circumstances.

The veil is singled out because it is a visible symbol of religious female oppression. It has bugger all to do with it being specifically Islamic. If you can give a similar practice in another religion then I'm happy to ban that too.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Jul 17 5.07pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50


It's ridiculous to ban clothing, unless it is for indecency reasons.

So if you forced people to wear a hat with 'I'm a second class citizen' written on it, that would be OK?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2017 5.08pm)

 

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