Ban the veil?

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Stirlingsays 12 Jul 17 5.11pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Indeed, but I don't see a lot of right wingers supporting wider women's rights from access to abortion, rape conviction rates and services in the UK, the disparity in pay despite the equal act 40 odd years ago. Well, plenty on the right have mixed views about those matters. Indeed it isn't exclusive to the right anyway. Abortion isn't solely a women's issue for example. Rape conviction rates are a very dangerous and diversive territory to start mentioning it as 'women's rights'......I could start mentioning the protection of 'innocent until proven guilty'. The pay gap argument is a myth....I'm honestly surprised that you appear to think it has some validity. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jul 2017 5.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Jul 17 5.11pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Indeed, but I don't see a lot of right wingers supporting wider women's rights from access to abortion, rape conviction rates and services in the UK, the disparity in pay despite the equal act 40 odd years ago.

Well, plenty on the right have mixed views about those matters. Indeed it isn't exclusive to the right anyway.

Abortion isn't solely a women's issue for example.

Rape conviction rates are a very dangerous and diversive territory to start mentioning it as 'women's rights'......I could start mentioning the protection of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

The pay gap argument is a myth....I'm honestly surprised that you appear to think it has some validity.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jul 2017 5.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 12 Jul 17 5.15pm
Of course a government should be able to ban dress. Being able to do it....and being right to do it are two separate things. Outside of security or communication requirements or perhaps some elements in work dress, the state shouldn't tell you what you can wear or not wear. I think this form of dress is wrong on many fronts but I don't support the suppression of personal choice to wear it.....But a government must be free to make the final say....But be forced to continually defend that decision along the 'personal choice' front. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jul 2017 5.20pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

12 Jul 17 5.15pm

Of course a government should be able to ban dress.

Being able to do it....and being right to do it are two separate things.

Outside of security or communication requirements or perhaps some elements in work dress, the state shouldn't tell you what you can wear or not wear.

I think this form of dress is wrong on many fronts but I don't support the suppression of personal choice to wear it.....But a government must be free to make the final say....But be forced to continually defend that decision along the 'personal choice' front.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jul 2017 5.20pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Jul 17 5.40pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Of course a government should be able to ban dress. Being able to do it....and being right to do it are two separate things. Outside of security or communication requirements or perhaps some elements in work dress, the state shouldn't tell you what you can wear or not wear. I think this form of dress is wrong on many fronts but I don't support the suppression of personal choice to wear it.....But a government must be free to make the final say....But be forced to continually defend that decision along the 'personal choice' front. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jul 2017 5.20pm) I like this statement. Arguably Muslim women need to be the ones to make that decision. You can't really force emancipation on people. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 12 Jul 17 5.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Of course a government should be able to ban dress.

Being able to do it....and being right to do it are two separate things.

Outside of security or communication requirements or perhaps some elements in work dress, the state shouldn't tell you what you can wear or not wear.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jul 2017 5.20pm)

I like this statement. Arguably Muslim women need to be the ones to make that decision. You can't really force emancipation on people.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jul 17 6.01pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So if you forced people to wear a hat with 'I'm a second class citizen' written on it, that would be OK? Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2017 5.08pm) What are you on about - who said anything about forcing people to wear things? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 12 Jul 17 6.01pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So if you forced people to wear a hat with 'I'm a second class citizen' written on it, that would be OK?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2017 5.08pm)

What are you on about - who said anything about forcing people to wear things?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jul 17 6.03pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Personally, I'd start with baseball caps on anyone who is British, and 'humour' on T-shirts. And by ban, I mean summery execution, by rape stick. With you on your dislike of baseball caps and sloganed t-shirts - also messages in the back windows of cars. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 12 Jul 17 6.03pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Personally, I'd start with baseball caps on anyone who is British, and 'humour' on T-shirts. And by ban, I mean summery execution, by rape stick.

With you on your dislike of baseball caps and sloganed t-shirts - also messages in the back windows of cars.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 17 9.19pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 What are you on about - who said anything about forcing people to wear things? You said that you can't ban dress unless it's indecent and I'm giving you an example of when you should.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jul 17 9.19pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

What are you on about - who said anything about forcing people to wear things?

You said that you can't ban dress unless it's indecent and I'm giving you an example of when you should.

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 17 9.26pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 I like this statement. Arguably Muslim women need to be the ones to make that decision. You can't really force emancipation on people. Not that simple. Wearing the veil is arguably because of indoctrination or social pressure. We are all indoctrinated to a greater or lesser degree and have pressures to do or not do various forms of behaviour. That is why we have lawmakers to decide what is acceptable for society. That judgment has to come before personal choice or religious doctrine otherwise all kinds of s*** could occur. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2017 9.28pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jul 17 9.26pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I like this statement. Arguably Muslim women need to be the ones to make that decision. You can't really force emancipation on people.

Not that simple. Wearing the veil is arguably because of indoctrination or social pressure. We are all indoctrinated to a greater or lesser degree and have pressures to do or not do various forms of behaviour. That is why we have lawmakers to decide what is acceptable for society.
That judgment has to come before personal choice or religious doctrine otherwise all kinds of s*** could occur.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (12 Jul 2017 9.28pm)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 12 Jul 17 9.39pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You said that you can't ban dress unless it's indecent and I'm giving you an example of when you should. If some one chooses to wear the hat you described, fine. Obviously people should not be forced to wear the hat. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 12 Jul 17 9.39pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You said that you can't ban dress unless it's indecent and I'm giving you an example of when you should.

If some one chooses to wear the hat you described, fine. Obviously people should not be forced to wear the hat.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 12 Jul 17 9.41pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 If some one chooses to wear the hat you described, fine. Obviously people should not be forced to wear the hat. Agreed. I was just making a point.
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Hrolf The Ganger

12 Jul 17 9.41pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

If some one chooses to wear the hat you described, fine. Obviously people should not be forced to wear the hat.

Agreed. I was just making a point.

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wordup 12 Jul 17 9.42pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You said that you can't ban dress unless it's indecent and I'm giving you an example of when you should. If you actually want to wear something saying 'I'm a second class citizen' on it then you should be able to. If someone - a partner perhaps - is forcing you to do things, that has very little to do with the actual clothing itself, it's their behaviour. You don't ban sex because rape exists. Edited by wordup (12 Jul 2017 9.44pm)
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wordup

12 Jul 17 9.42pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You said that you can't ban dress unless it's indecent and I'm giving you an example of when you should.

If you actually want to wear something saying 'I'm a second class citizen' on it then you should be able to.

If someone - a partner perhaps - is forcing you to do things, that has very little to do with the actual clothing itself, it's their behaviour. You don't ban sex because rape exists.

Edited by wordup (12 Jul 2017 9.44pm)

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braunstoneagle the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 12 Jul 17 9.43pm
it should be banned but it wont because people are being scared of being called a racist...like somebody else said, if me & my partner went to dubai why cant she wear a bikini on the beach? whats good for the goose... �Football isn�t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.� Ian Holloway
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braunstoneagle

the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 12 Jul 17 9.43pm

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it should be banned but it wont because people are being scared of being called a racist...like somebody else said, if me & my partner went to dubai why cant she wear a bikini on the beach?

whats good for the goose...

�Football isn�t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.� Ian Holloway

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 12 Jul 17 9.44pm
Originally posted by Frickin Saweet would that include HF's scarves wrapped around their faces or are match days exceptional circumstances? Would those be half AND half scarves? "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 12 Jul 17 9.44pm

Originally posted by Frickin Saweet

would that include HF's scarves wrapped around their faces or are match days exceptional circumstances?

Would those be half AND half scarves?

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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