Oooh lets get intellectual, hope the site can handle it. How exciting to get intellectual.

Tell me all about the Trump policies and achievements you love?

Oh.

Sad.

We didnt get intellectual after all.

Thanks, you have just proved that you aren't for real.

The US president is there to govern the country – he's not there for moral guidance! That went out of the window many years ago.

Very, very wrong! The President is, under the US constitution, a co-equal branch of government. He is not there to "govern the country". He isn't a dictator, although he might want to be and think and act as though he is. He helps to govern the country and part of his role is as the international face of the USA. He is most definitely there to represent a moral standpoint, a beacon of Americanism. What kind of example is Trump? Bill Clinton was impeached (by the Republicans) for a lapse of morality, but Trump has done things 100 times worse and some people defend him? It's nuts.

But as a leftist, you worship the state as God so I'm not surprised.

For the umpteenth time in these threads I am not "a leftist". I am a traditional, "one nation" Conservative who believes in fiscal restraint with social responsibility. Opposing people like Trump has nothing whatsoever to do with your personal political beliefs. You just need to be able to tell fact from fiction.

EVERYONE knew Trump's flaws but still voted for him. When will you understand – they don't care! They care about jobs and he has delivered.

That a proportion of the people are selfish has always been true. That's why we need leaders who can lead and inspire and not just pander to popular demands.

You thought Mueller would nail Trump and you were wrong. In the meantime, keep speculating about anything Trump has done that would involve jail time if it makes you feel better.

You think Mueller hasn't "nailed" Trump? Read the report, consider the impact of the ongoing redacted cases, the appointment of Barr to erect barriers and the determination of the House to do their duty. Trump has not yet been hung out to dry but the vultures are all circulating and looking very hungry.They might have to wait until 2020 to have their feed but it's coming. Trump knows it too. Innocent men don't act as he is and that alone ought to be enough to convince you that you are wrong.

Edited by Penge Eagle (09 May 2019 12.03am)

You say he is failing with "a moral standpoint, a beacon of Americanism"?
You're shifting the goalposts here. So his policies are immoral or he is? We were talking about the man's morals. For years, people knew he was a bulls***ter and cheated on women but voters care about jobs, not his private life.

You cannot separate the two things, although some people obviously try to. Policies are driven by ideas and ideas are driven by your approach to life which is in turn partly driven by your morality. Trump says whatever enters his head and his primary policy is doing whatever is necessary to stay in power. Any real policy decisions have been made at the behest of the GOP or Murdoch via Fox. That Trump claims "his policies" are working is just bs. Most of the economic upswing is as a direct result of the Obama years. As every economist will tell you these things are cyclical and take time to work through. Trump's impact won't really be felt until the full effect of the increased debt burden and trade wars is felt. No doubt he will blame the Democrats for obstructing him when it happens.

Love the fact that you say Clinton had "a lapse of morality" by committing adultery while in office. Ah, that's OK, it was just a lapse! What has Trump done as POTUS that is more immoral than that?

Whether he has committed any personal sexual immoralities whilst in office is unknown, and completely unimportant, just so long as they remain discrete. Leopards though don't change their spots. Cosying up to Putin in Helsinki was pretty immoral. Obstructing justice is immoral. It is this kind of immoral attitude which matters.

Now you are saying people are "selfish" because they voted for someone they liked the sound of! Or should they vote for how someone else thinks? You have lost the plot mate.

That's not what I said at all. Some people ARE selfish. They don't become selfish by voting for someone. They may though choose someone because they are being promised things that match their selfish desires and that someone may tailor their offering accordingly. Thus grows populism which Trump is in the vanguard of spreading. We cannot stop people being selfish but we can educate them not to be and we can outvote them. That's the current task.

Edited by Penge Eagle (09 May 2019 12.42pm)

Suprised you didnt mention Hillary, thats what you guys do normally isnt it?

Obama was not a perfect president, and made many, many mistakes.

However he is not a bully. He is not a con artist. He is not a sex pest who said he would date his own daughter. He is not a criminal who obstructs justice. He is not a climate change denier. He is not a coward unwilling to even attempt to tackle the gun problem here. I could go on.

I never said Trump is the only person who sets bad examples. He just sets the most of any president in history, and is a pathological liar and con artist.

D'Souza plead GUILTY?? Not sure I get your point therefore.

2020 will be a high stakes affair.

The midterms showed the country is growing tired of the Trump circus.

Biden is the one who can get it done.