Bias against Trump

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deleted user 08 Jun 19 11.16pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The biggest bully in the playground always has leverage doesn't he? Until a bigger bully comes along and then those he has been bullying tend to take delight in seeing him face his comeuppance. That bigger bully may well turn out to be China in the not too distant future and other countries will undoubtedly have long memories. It's always been best to leave friends behind you and not force things through your strength. Not for nothing is it said that bullies, like cheats, never prosper for long. In the meantime trade wars and sabre rattling scare markets and raise tensions, without actually benefiting anyone. Even in this latest episode with Mexico it is far from clear what has actually happened and whether Trump has backed down on his tariff proposals because of internal pressures from those who understand the impact on US consumers and not because any "deal" has been done. Finding a way to stem the flow of migrants from the south is in both country's interests so it makes sense to find ways to co-operate. That flow has increased almost certainly, in my opinion, because of Trump and the fear among intending migrants that the border will be slammed shut in some way so they need to act now, or never. That there is a current crisis is obvious. How much that has been caused by Trump's rhetoric is not so clear. It's got worse ever since he started to bang on about his ridiculous "wall", which is not, I think, a co-incidence. There are much better ways to handle this than winding up your political base with sound bites. It's often the way of the world that you have to throw your lot in with someone. With the US, China and possibly India down the line holding massive sway, life either becomes a balancing act, a 'pick your poison', or a balance of the two. The US and UK are often said to be separated by a common language, but at the same time it is something that unites us too. That's one positive about the EU if it does or in our case had elected to offer more autonomy on immigration. There are undeniable pluses in having the weight of a large group or union behind you. If the EU doesn't totally go up the spout, or a shake up occurs in future where there are tiers of countries you can live in, or something along those lines, rather than 'everyone in' across the board, that might work. Maybe it takes leaving to get there. To further these iterations and to respect member states. I don't know. Both the 'remain come what may, everything is A-OK', and the 'f*** em all off' attitudes are both rather shortsighted and emotional in their own way. Perhaps when the dust settles, some sane balance will manifest. Trump's attitude to Mexico is partly symbolic rather than actual. For Republicans, as with the Democrats there are certain things that people want to hear. The US is so politically polarised that it now manifests itself in terms of on one hand the grotesque "They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people” and on the other an 'everyone in' attitude that with no criteria attached where it's frowned upon if you're not high fiving eveyrone as they cross the border. Hopefully a more sane approach will come about that respects both dignity of people, and is realistic as to what is possible. But I think most of us are used to the US being one big wacky contradiction by now anyway .
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deleted user

08 Jun 19 11.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The biggest bully in the playground always has leverage doesn't he? Until a bigger bully comes along and then those he has been bullying tend to take delight in seeing him face his comeuppance.

That bigger bully may well turn out to be China in the not too distant future and other countries will undoubtedly have long memories. It's always been best to leave friends behind you and not force things through your strength.

Not for nothing is it said that bullies, like cheats, never prosper for long.

In the meantime trade wars and sabre rattling scare markets and raise tensions, without actually benefiting anyone.

Even in this latest episode with Mexico it is far from clear what has actually happened and whether Trump has backed down on his tariff proposals because of internal pressures from those who understand the impact on US consumers and not because any "deal" has been done.

Finding a way to stem the flow of migrants from the south is in both country's interests so it makes sense to find ways to co-operate. That flow has increased almost certainly, in my opinion, because of Trump and the fear among intending migrants that the border will be slammed shut in some way so they need to act now, or never. That there is a current crisis is obvious. How much that has been caused by Trump's rhetoric is not so clear.

It's got worse ever since he started to bang on about his ridiculous "wall", which is not, I think, a co-incidence. There are much better ways to handle this than winding up your political base with sound bites.

It's often the way of the world that you have to throw your lot in with someone. With the US, China and possibly India down the line holding massive sway, life either becomes a balancing act, a 'pick your poison', or a balance of the two. The US and UK are often said to be separated by a common language, but at the same time it is something that unites us too.

That's one positive about the EU if it does or in our case had elected to offer more autonomy on immigration. There are undeniable pluses in having the weight of a large group or union behind you. If the EU doesn't totally go up the spout, or a shake up occurs in future where there are tiers of countries you can live in, or something along those lines, rather than 'everyone in' across the board, that might work. Maybe it takes leaving to get there. To further these iterations and to respect member states. I don't know. Both the 'remain come what may, everything is A-OK', and the 'f*** em all off' attitudes are both rather shortsighted and emotional in their own way. Perhaps when the dust settles, some sane balance will manifest.

Trump's attitude to Mexico is partly symbolic rather than actual. For Republicans, as with the Democrats there are certain things that people want to hear. The US is so politically polarised that it now manifests itself in terms of on one hand the grotesque "They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people” and on the other an 'everyone in' attitude that with no criteria attached where it's frowned upon if you're not high fiving eveyrone as they cross the border. Hopefully a more sane approach will come about that respects both dignity of people, and is realistic as to what is possible. But I think most of us are used to the US being one big wacky contradiction by now anyway .

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twist Miami, Florida 09 Jun 19 4.43am
Heres some interesting facts about undocumented individuals. 1. More people overstay their visa's than those that cross the border undocumented. 2. From 2010-2017, the undocumented Mexican population of the US has dropped by 1.3 million, or 20%. 3. The number of undocumented Indians (from the country India) has increased by 70% in that time. Mexicans and latin Americans in general have been crossing the border in their thousands for decades. Some of them bring drugs with them, some of them are criminals, but 99+% of them are looking for work and a better life for their families. So much is made of drugs that make it across the border, but a wall is not going to stop it as over 70% of illegal drugs coming into the country, come in through gateways. Illegal drugs are not even what is the cause of the major drug problems of America, its prescription drugs. To Trumps credit, he did mention this once, but since then its gone AWOL as he continues to crow on about the dangerous Mexican grandmothers with their burro's loaded with Cocaine and AK47's crossing the border. I dont have to wonder why.
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twist

Miami, Florida 09 Jun 19 4.43am

Heres some interesting facts about undocumented individuals.

1. More people overstay their visa's than those that cross the border undocumented.
2. From 2010-2017, the undocumented Mexican population of the US has dropped by 1.3 million, or 20%.
3. The number of undocumented Indians (from the country India) has increased by 70% in that time.

Mexicans and latin Americans in general have been crossing the border in their thousands for decades. Some of them bring drugs with them, some of them are criminals, but 99+% of them are looking for work and a better life for their families.

So much is made of drugs that make it across the border, but a wall is not going to stop it as over 70% of illegal drugs coming into the country, come in through gateways.

Illegal drugs are not even what is the cause of the major drug problems of America, its prescription drugs.
To Trumps credit, he did mention this once, but since then its gone AWOL as he continues to crow on about the dangerous Mexican grandmothers with their burro's loaded with Cocaine and AK47's crossing the border.
I dont have to wonder why.

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Maine Eagle USA 09 Jun 19 5.51am
Originally posted by twist Heres some interesting facts about undocumented individuals. 1. More people overstay their visa's than those that cross the border undocumented. 2. From 2010-2017, the undocumented Mexican population of the US has dropped by 1.3 million, or 20%. 3. The number of undocumented Indians (from the country India) has increased by 70% in that time. Mexicans and latin Americans in general have been crossing the border in their thousands for decades. Some of them bring drugs with them, some of them are criminals, but 99+% of them are looking for work and a better life for their families. So much is made of drugs that make it across the border, but a wall is not going to stop it as over 70% of illegal drugs coming into the country, come in through gateways. Illegal drugs are not even what is the cause of the major drug problems of America, its prescription drugs. To Trumps credit, he did mention this once, but since then its gone AWOL as he continues to crow on about the dangerous Mexican grandmothers with their burro's loaded with Cocaine and AK47's crossing the border. I dont have to wonder why. Trump likes to whip up his baying mob of MAGA hat wearing imbeciles with a war. Could be N Korea, could be his “invasion caravan” nonsense, could be his wall in general, could be mueller and the deep state out to get him, could be socialist dem boogie man scare tactics. Should be Russian interference, climate change or Saudi murder squads, but hey ho, those don’t excite his moronic base. He picks one every couple of weeks and his megaphone Fox News amplifies it to the masses of naive fools who hang on his every lie. Trump is mentally ill; he is a pathological liar. No normal human being should lie even 10% as much as Trump does. Taking anything he says seriously or paying it much mind is for the birds, just ask Leo Varadkar and his border wall. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.
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Maine Eagle

USA 09 Jun 19 5.51am

Originally posted by twist

Heres some interesting facts about undocumented individuals.

So much is made of drugs that make it across the border, but a wall is not going to stop it as over 70% of illegal drugs coming into the country, come in through gateways.

Trump likes to whip up his baying mob of MAGA hat wearing imbeciles with a war.

Could be N Korea, could be his “invasion caravan” nonsense, could be his wall in general, could be mueller and the deep state out to get him, could be socialist dem boogie man scare tactics.

Should be Russian interference, climate change or Saudi murder squads, but hey ho, those don’t excite his moronic base.

He picks one every couple of weeks and his megaphone Fox News amplifies it to the masses of naive fools who hang on his every lie.

Trump is mentally ill; he is a pathological liar. No normal human being should lie even 10% as much as Trump does.

Taking anything he says seriously or paying it much mind is for the birds, just ask Leo Varadkar and his border wall.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

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ChrisGC Wantage 09 Jun 19 8.11am
Originally posted by twist Heres some interesting facts about undocumented individuals. 1. More people overstay their visa's than those that cross the border undocumented. 2. From 2010-2017, the undocumented Mexican population of the US has dropped by 1.3 million, or 20%. 3. The number of undocumented Indians (from the country India) has increased by 70% in that time. Mexicans and latin Americans in general have been crossing the border in their thousands for decades. Some of them bring drugs with them, some of them are criminals, but 99+% of them are looking for work and a better life for their families. So much is made of drugs that make it across the border, but a wall is not going to stop it as over 70% of illegal drugs coming into the country, come in through gateways. Illegal drugs are not even what is the cause of the major drug problems of America, its prescription drugs. To Trumps credit, he did mention this once, but since then its gone AWOL as he continues to crow on about the dangerous Mexican grandmothers with their burro's loaded with Cocaine and AK47's crossing the border. I dont have to wonder why. Well that's bulls* by definition straight off the bat! An undocumented, illegal alien is outstaying their welcome from the get go ffs, how on earth can this 'fact' be determined? "How long have you been here mate?" "About a week hombre" (perhaps years, who knows?) Point 2 is further bulls*. If something is undocumented it's clearly impossible to determine whether the levels have dropped or not. As for the rest? 82% of all unsourced statistics are made up, everyone knows that. Edited by ChrisGC (09 Jun 2019 8.12am)
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ChrisGC

Wantage 09 Jun 19 8.11am

Originally posted by twist

Heres some interesting facts about undocumented individuals.

So much is made of drugs that make it across the border, but a wall is not going to stop it as over 70% of illegal drugs coming into the country, come in through gateways.

Well that's bulls*** by definition straight off the bat!
An undocumented, illegal alien is outstaying their welcome from the get go ffs, how on earth can this 'fact' be determined?

"How long have you been here mate?"
"About a week hombre" (perhaps years, who knows?)
Point 2 is further bulls***. If something is undocumented it's clearly impossible to determine whether the levels have dropped or not.

As for the rest? 82% of all unsourced statistics are made up, everyone knows that.

Edited by ChrisGC (09 Jun 2019 8.12am)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 9.31am
Originally posted by Park Road Then obviously you don't pay much attention to yourself... Got something right for a change. It's true that I pay much more attention to those I love, especially my wife, than I do myself. How the deluded speak... Got something else right! Having listened to you I am quite sure that this is true too. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 9.31am

Originally posted by Park Road

Then obviously you don't pay much attention to
yourself...

Got something right for a change. It's true that I pay much more attention to those I love, especially my wife, than I do myself.

How the deluded speak...

Got something else right! Having listened to you I am quite sure that this is true too.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 9.40am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What a relief. No one cares anyway. No-one compels anyone to read anything here if they choose not to. So the opportunity for relief is in your own hands. Pun intended. Perhaps you would like to give us an example of the perfect socialist utopia with ideal leadership since so far you have bored us all half to death with your Trumpophobia and Nazi paranoia. why anyone thinks that those who oppose Trump and other other versions of populist, or far right leaning regimes must automatically favour socialism beats me. I am a social democrat who understands and approves of the capitalist system, provided it is used responsibly and under the control of the people. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 9.40am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What a relief. No one cares anyway.

No-one compels anyone to read anything here if they choose not to. So the opportunity for relief is in your own hands. Pun intended.

Perhaps you would like to give us an example of the perfect socialist utopia with ideal leadership since so far you have bored us all half to death with your Trumpophobia and Nazi paranoia.

why anyone thinks that those who oppose Trump and other other versions of populist, or far right leaning regimes must automatically favour socialism beats me. I am a social democrat who understands and approves of the capitalist system, provided it is used responsibly and under the control of the people.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Park Road 09 Jun 19 10.38am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Got something right for a change. It's true that I pay much more attention to those I love, especially my wife I see you're starting to see the light Wisbech... To clarify,when comes to people's pompousness - I'm always right Got something else right! Having listened to you I am quite sure that this is true too. Again, there's a good fella! Don't worry the more I reply to your self obsessed , posts the more you will agree with me. Just so you know,and I need to clear this up - like I did with your lack of knowledge on Islam, and your so called speculative thoughts about me, is - that you haven't been listening to me you've been reading my posts. I'll give you some golden stars because your posts are less arrogant these day. I'll just put that down to me old chap. Need any more advice on how to conduct yourself in the future PM me ,and I will be all but glad to help you. Have a nice Sunday drinking in your local Cornish watering hole, laughing at what ever comes your way. Edited by Park Road (09 Jun 2019 10.41am)
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Park Road

09 Jun 19 10.38am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Got something right for a change. It's true that I pay much more attention to those I love, especially my wife

I see you're starting to see the light Wisbech... To clarify,when comes to people's pompousness - I'm always right

Got something else right! Having listened to you I am quite sure that this is true too.

Again, there's a good fella! Don't worry the more I reply to your self obsessed , posts the more you will agree with me.

Just so you know,and I need to clear this up - like I did with your lack of knowledge on Islam, and your so called speculative thoughts about me, is - that you haven't been listening to me you've been reading my posts.

I'll give you some golden stars because your posts are less arrogant these day. I'll just put that down to me old chap.

Need any more advice on how to conduct yourself in the future PM me ,and I will be all but glad to help you.

Have a nice Sunday drinking in your local Cornish watering hole, laughing at what ever comes your way.

Edited by Park Road (09 Jun 2019 10.41am)

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Hrolf The Ganger 09 Jun 19 6.46pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle why anyone thinks that those who oppose Trump and other other versions of populist, or far right leaning regimes must automatically favour socialism beats me. I am a social democrat who understands and approves of the capitalist system, provided it is used responsibly and under the control of the people. What does that mean? Everybody is one of 'the people'. Responsibility is laid down by the law.
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Hrolf The Ganger

09 Jun 19 6.46pm

Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

why anyone thinks that those who oppose Trump and other other versions of populist, or far right leaning regimes must automatically favour socialism beats me. I am a social democrat who understands and approves of the capitalist system, provided it is used responsibly and under the control of the people.

What does that mean? Everybody is one of 'the people'.

Responsibility is laid down by the law.

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cryrst The garden of England 09 Jun 19 6.57pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle why anyone thinks that those who oppose Trump and other other versions of populist, or far right leaning regimes must automatically favour socialism beats me. I am a social democrat who understands and approves of the capitalist system, provided it is used responsibly and under the control of the people What is the opposite side of the fence? We vote to put a group of ministers in power to make decisions for us. Anarchy is the opposite. Sometimes we might not like their choices but they are able to be voted out. That's a democracy.
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cryrst

The garden of England 09 Jun 19 6.57pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What is the opposite side of the fence?
We vote to put a group of ministers in power to make decisions for us.
Anarchy is the opposite.
Sometimes we might not like their choices but they are able to be voted out.
That's a democracy.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 10.00pm
Originally posted by Park Road Got something right for a change. It's true that I pay much more attention to those I love, especially my wife I see you're starting to see the light Wisbech... To clarify,when comes to people's pompousness - I'm always right Got something else right! Having listened to you I am quite sure that this is true too. Again, there's a good fella! Don't worry the more I reply to your self obsessed , posts the more you will agree with me. Just so you know,and I need to clear this up - like I did with your lack of knowledge on Islam, and your so called speculative thoughts about me, is - that you haven't been listening to me you've been reading my posts. I'll give you some golden stars because your posts are less arrogant these day. I'll just put that down to me old chap. Need any more advice on how to conduct yourself in the future PM me ,and I will be all but glad to help you. Have a nice Sunday drinking in your local Cornish watering hole, laughing at what ever comes your way. Edited by Park Road (09 Jun 2019 10.41am) Well done! There has been a shed load of bs posted in these threads today, some of it disturbingly nasty, but this post has to take first prize. You really want to understand what arrogance is? Read your own words over and over again. It's all there in spades. I come across some ignorance in my long life but it never fails to amaze me that there is always someone out there who can top it. You carry on with the attempted wisecracks and insults. There is much joy in seeing people dig their own holes without realising they are doing it. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 10.00pm

Originally posted by Park Road

Got something right for a change. It's true that I pay much more attention to those I love, especially my wife

I see you're starting to see the light Wisbech... To clarify,when comes to people's pompousness - I'm always right

Got something else right! Having listened to you I am quite sure that this is true too.

Again, there's a good fella! Don't worry the more I reply to your self obsessed , posts the more you will agree with me.

I'll give you some golden stars because your posts are less arrogant these day. I'll just put that down to me old chap.

Need any more advice on how to conduct yourself in the future PM me ,and I will be all but glad to help you.

Have a nice Sunday drinking in your local Cornish watering hole, laughing at what ever comes your way.

Edited by Park Road (09 Jun 2019 10.41am)

Well done! There has been a shed load of bs posted in these threads today, some of it disturbingly nasty, but this post has to take first prize.

You really want to understand what arrogance is? Read your own words over and over again. It's all there in spades.

I come across some ignorance in my long life but it never fails to amaze me that there is always someone out there who can top it.

You carry on with the attempted wisecracks and insults. There is much joy in seeing people dig their own holes without realising they are doing it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 10.03pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger What does that mean? Everybody is one of 'the people'. Responsibility is laid down by the law. Of course it is! Now! But there are straws in the wind that those who think like Trump would prefer that was not the case. Those who describe a free press as being the "enemy of the people" cannot be trusted with our democracy. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 10.03pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

What does that mean? Everybody is one of 'the people'.

Responsibility is laid down by the law.

Of course it is! Now! But there are straws in the wind that those who think like Trump would prefer that was not the case. Those who describe a free press as being the "enemy of the people" cannot be trusted with our democracy.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 10.08pm
Originally posted by cryrst Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle why anyone thinks that those who oppose Trump and other other versions of populist, or far right leaning regimes must automatically favour socialism beats me. I am a social democrat who understands and approves of the capitalist system, provided it is used responsibly and under the control of the people What is the opposite side of the fence? We vote to put a group of ministers in power to make decisions for us. Anarchy is the opposite. Sometimes we might not like their choices but they are able to be voted out. That's a democracy. As I largely agree with you I don't really get your point. We don't actually vote in a "group of ministers". We vote in a Parliament and it's for them to form a government, decide who will become PM and select the ministers. Our role is indeed restricted to voting them out. That includes if they fail to implement any promises they might have made. Like on Brexit. That though is for another thread. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Jun 19 10.08pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I largely agree with you I don't really get your point.

We don't actually vote in a "group of ministers". We vote in a Parliament and it's for them to form a government, decide who will become PM and select the ministers.

Our role is indeed restricted to voting them out. That includes if they fail to implement any promises they might have made. Like on Brexit. That though is for another thread.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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