Bias against Trump
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 kenbarr  Jackson Heights, Queens, New York ... 04 Dec 17 6.46pm |
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Those of us in NYC knew all along that Trump is a fraud and a con artist. Now the rest of the country will learn the hard way.
Divorced...And LOVING it! |
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Stirlingsays  05 Dec 17 3.34am |
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Originally posted by wordup
I'm saying that as a reaction to your hatred of what you see as 'progressives', I don't have 'hatred' I have harsh criticism certainty.....but 'hatred'? Originally posted by wordup
you flip in completely the opposite direction and are, shall we say, routinely unmoved when individuals and groups target minorities. Significantly less empathetic towards certain groups, which of course is how you view progressives so who is better or worse? That's what this panic over American Antifa and BLM but lack of concern over white nationalists and 'oh who are they then, i really wouldn't know' about Britain First here at home is all about. Firstly some questions about your contentions in the section. When you are going to make these statements about an individual poster you should really be specific so that it's possible to reply effectively.......as I've said before, I regard some elements of progressivism as a disfigurement and expansion upon some good ideas. Other ideas within progressisivm that come from the far left that are within this ideology yes....you could say I stand in complete opposition to those yes. The reason it is always in my sights is before its practices and increasingly laws rule over us. I've made it clear on here many many times.....posts you have obviously missed or ignored that I don't support groups or individuals that harass, either verbally or physically, peaceful people. That does not mean that they can't comment on negative aspects of religions, individuals or groups...Everything is contextual..just as you can criticise groups and individuals yourself. Specific question regarding your contentions aside. I want to point out the biggest flaw in what you say here. You are guilty of creating a false equivalency between in influence of two negative political philosophies - progressivism and the far right. You seriously criticise me for not continually attacking the far right as much as I attack progressive politics! That is false equivalency manifest. Far right politics has no political power in this country or the US....unless you are seriously suggesting Trump is far right! Whereas progressive philosophies are literally written into politicos in this country and how the big western corporations operate, how the media operate, education operates and so on. I attack what is actually in control. It is a complete false equivalency to criticise me for not attacking the far right in anything like the same tones as the far right aren't in charge. Come that day, I'll have something to say about it. I've criticised the far right on here..I'll do so again..what I know about them anyway. Ask me an actual 'far right' issue as I'll reply to you. Originally posted by wordup
Dog whistle faux 'say it like it is' populist election strategies like Trump's are every bit as real and nauseating as virtue signaling. They are two sides of the same coin and a back of a fag packet way to get easy allegiance from elements of the electorate susceptible to that type of messaging. Trump has bought a decent chunk of his support for pennies in the pound with his s***ty behaviour. Edited by wordup (03 Dec 2017 12.49pm) Trump is a by product of many things. Yes, within it is a reaction against progressivism. Given a choice between Trump and Clinton I would certainly have voted for him. I'm always happy to reject progressive politics....it has simply not being pushed back before and its supporters regard their idealogy as uncontested. So we have Trump....yes, that's problematic in many instances but it's been a growing counter reaction. His election saw identity politics come to the fore in situations what had previously only been seen with minority group votes. It's valid to criticise his style and of course his policies. Though for me, if you want to criticise my attitude toward Trump you should say what you are actually criticising.....instead of implying that his support comes from 'dog whistling'......nice use of a progressive term there I see. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2017 4.18am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup 05 Dec 17 3.53pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Trump is a by product of many things. Yes, within it is a reaction against progressivism. Given a choice between Trump and Clinton I would certainly have voted for him. I'm always happy to reject progressive politics....it has simply not being pushed back before and its supporters regard their idealogy as uncontested. So we have Trump....yes, that's problematic in many instances but it's been a growing counter reaction. His election saw identity politics come to the fore in situations what had previously only been seen with minority group votes. It's valid to criticise his style and of course his policies. Though for me, if you want to criticise my attitude toward Trump you should say what you are actually criticising.....instead of implying that his support comes from 'dog whistling'......nice use of a progressive term there I see. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2017 4.18am) This latching onto individual words or phrases like stupid or dog-whistle like you're slapping on a pair of cuffs isn't going too well is it. Clearly I've used it here to state that both terms, 'virtue signaling' and 'dog whistle', can be overplayed but that indeed both are real and left, right equivalents. There isn't very well much chance of conveying this balanced view without using the actual terms. If merely using the word 'dog whistle' has me exposed as some kind of 'progressive', which I'm not by the way, you might want to address your habit of using alt- right terminology or writing odes to figures in that far right community. Though from what you say here you're only enamored by them because you've decided that the far right hold 'no political power' whereas 'progressives' have apparently taken over the whole of society from top to bottom and are the dominant voice. Instead of calling a far right equivalent, in fact more extreme, of beliefs you clearly hate exactly what is it, you get doe eyed over it due to its position in the political landscape. This attitude and behaviour is a parallel of the safe space loving social justice warrior view that if you're black you simply can't be racist even if you're behaving in exactly the same way as a white racist, or that it somehow doesn't matter, solely because you don't have 'institutional power structures' and the 'dominant view' behind you. As if there is a free pass because of the perceived weight your position, political or otherwise, holds. In ones own head perhaps, but not in reality I'm afraid regardless of political leanings. People that despise a certain political ideology to the point where it becomes who they are, just become the opposite equivalent of that problem down to the smallest detail. The old 'stare into the void and..'. It's unfortunate and I'd rather just get back to talking about Trump to be honest, so I'll leave you to it. Edited by wordup (05 Dec 2017 4.10pm)
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| wordup 05 Dec 17 5.10pm |
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Mueller has subpoenaed Deutsche Bank for information on Trump and his family - [Link] It's almost as if Trump himself is under investigation. Who'd have thunk it!
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| Stirlingsays 05 Dec 17 5.13pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
This latching onto individual words or phrases like stupid or dog-whistle like you're slapping on a pair of cuffs isn't going too well is it. Clearly I've used it here to state that both terms, 'virtue signaling' and 'dog whistle', can be overplayed but that indeed both are real and left, right equivalents. There isn't very well much chance of conveying this balanced view without using the actual terms. A bit fond of self aggrandizement aren't we? - the person of balance able to correctly identify those of extremes on both sides? So you're the one able to see the follies of everyone ....oh great. Well, perhaps your eyesight isn't as even as you think it is. I don't recognise myself in your glasses. Originally posted by wordup
If merely using the word 'dog whistle' has me exposed as some kind of 'progressive', which I'm not by the way, you might want to address your habit of using alt- right terminology or writing odes to figures in that far right community. Though from what you say here you're only enamored by them because you've decided that the far right hold 'no political power' whereas 'progressives' have apparently taken over the whole of society from top to bottom and are the dominant voice. Instead of calling a far right equivalent, in fact more extreme, of beliefs you clearly hate exactly what is it, you get doe eyed over it due to its position in the political landscape. I grant you....from what I've said you aren't a fully fledged signed up member of that team but I can remember the debate on 'words as violence'. I wasn't comfortable with your position on that personally as I remember it. You argued that words could be violence. If I've remembered incorrectly then for sure, correct me....unlike some I don't presume to be the all seeing eye. I criticise the progressive movement...it started on the left but It's adherents and supporters are on both the left and the right in the modern day. May herself is the author of our 'hate speech' laws. She isn't a fully signed up but she supports enough of it for it to be identified. Originally posted by wordup
This attitude and behaviour is a parallel of the safe space loving social justice warrior view that if you're black you simply can't be racist even if you're behaving in exactly the same way as a white racist, or that it somehow doesn't matter, solely because you don't have 'institutional power structures' and the 'dominant view' behind you. As if there is a free pass because of the perceived weight your position, political or otherwise, holds. In ones own head perhaps, but not in reality I'm afraid regardless of political leanings. You obviously agree with me on some excesses of progressivism at least. Similar to how we agree that those who try to sack people on political grounds cause societal problems. Originally posted by wordup
People that despise a certain political ideology to the point where it becomes who they are, just become the opposite equivalent of that problem down to the smallest detail. The old 'stare into the void and..'. It's unfortunate and I'd rather just get back to talking about Trump to be honest, so I'll leave you to it. Edited by wordup (05 Dec 2017 4.10pm) That's your opinion and I think in my case it's a mislabeling. So, going from your criticisms of Trump, you have become the 'opposite equivalent of that problem down to the smallest detail'. So are you the 'tea party' then? While it's true that I hold some strong positions I also believe in fairness of treatment in all but the most extreme security exceptions. Some people become the reverse mirror of what they hate but in accussing people of that you need to provide evidence for it. You made contentions about me in your second to last post and I asked you several questions about it to be specific and you you didn't answer them.... it would be nice if you did. Personally I always answer questions put to me that I'm aware of. There are worldviews. There are principles people adhere to. I stand for certain principles and against others. That makes me no different to anyone else. You either agree with my criticisms, partly agree or fully disagree. There is nothing more profound to it than that.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| wordup 05 Dec 17 5.20pm |
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Quote A bit fond of self aggrandizement aren't we?
I tend to speak to people in their own language. And for anyone interested, I have never in my entire life used the phrase 'words are violence' nor argued that they are because it's not a position I hold or have ever held. Feel free to spend your day checking up on that should you wish to. Anyway, back on topic. Petty disagreements are not entertaining for others and are self indulgent from your direction and mine.
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Kermit8  Hevon 05 Dec 17 5.26pm |
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" You argued that words could be violence." Think that was probably me, stirling, referencing Rwanda as as example and extreme verbal bullying which could lead to breakdowns or direct and meant threats to kill a la the bad old days in Northern Ireland.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 05 Dec 17 5.27pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
For anyone interested, I have never in my entire life used the phrase 'words are violence' nor argued that they are because it's not a position I hold or have ever held. Feel free to spend your day checking up on that should you wish to. Now, back on topic. Petty disagreements are not entertaining for others and are self indulgent from your direction and mine.
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| wordup 05 Dec 17 5.29pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Edited by wordup (05 Dec 2017 5.30pm)
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| Kermit8 Hevon 05 Dec 17 5.33pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
Edited by wordup (05 Dec 2017 5.30pm) You get used to it. It usually happens when struggling with the points made. And well made they are too.
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| wordup 05 Dec 17 5.49pm |
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Trump-Russia probe: Mueller 'demands Deutsche Bank data' - [Link] Das ist gut!
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| Ray in Houston Houston 05 Dec 17 6.02pm |
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Originally posted by wordup
Trump-Russia probe: Mueller 'demands Deutsche Bank data' - [Link] Das ist gut!
Edited by Ray in Houston (05 Dec 2017 6.11pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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