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April 19 2024 3.08am

The battle of Lewisham.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Aug 17 3.17pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

No, they tend to go into concerts full of kids and blow them up. Why doesn't the left protest and march against them? Why doesn't the left protest about the racist fascist Mugabe in Zimbawe. Why don't the left march against the genocide of white farmers in South Africa? Why doesn't the left protest about the communists in North Korea? Why doesn't the left march against the repressive regime in Venezeula?

Edited by hedgehog50 (15 Aug 2017 2.05pm)

Pretty reasonable questions.

1) who exactly would they be protesting to, I don't think IS is has a UK office? Is the UK condoning or exploiting Islamist terrorism?
2) Again, how exactly would protest in the UK affect change in Zimbawe? Is the UK government not taking any action, or joined in the sanctions.
3) Reasonable, but again it kind of misses the point that who exactly would they be marching against and trying to leverage in the UK government.
4) Does North Korea even have a Embassy in the UK to picket? Does the UK have a diplomatic relationship with the North Koreans.
5) Similar with Venezula, I'm pretty sure that there isn't really much you could achieve in the UK.

Traditionally, you march in protest to affect change in your country. I never really understood the idea of protesting about things you've got no capacity to influence like a foreign nation - The idea generally is to leverage change in the UK, by influencing your government.

Way I saw it, the protesting of South Africa was about getting the UK Government to switch its support away from South Africa, not about trying to affect change in the country directly.

Protesting oppressive regimes, when your thousands of miles away, and your government is condoning them, isn't really sensible.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Aug 17 3.23pm

Originally posted by topcat

I'd have no problem with people fighting Choudhury and his supporters trying to interrupt an Armistice Day parade.

Me neither, truth be told. Like when they were burning poppies, I don't think it should be against the law, but I wouldn't have a problem some people gave them a slapping.

Same with those Muslim Patrols and Britain First patrols.

My concern with the EDL, BNP etc has been how they tend to equate all Muslims with those people.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Aug 17 3.26pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Only because they are a minority.

You can spin it however you wish (and I know you do it so well) but the threat to a minority by a bunch of half wit skin heads with bricks and bovver boots does not compare to Islamic terrorists with bomb vests and mass murder on their minds, indiscriminately killing people in the name of an anti British and anti Western religious sect. Hardly a week goes by in Europe without a new attack.

Funny that the left spend so much energy fighting the Far Right and a similar amount excusing and appeasing Islamist nutters and all kinds of other horrors brought here by mass immigration.

As I said, they are very selective in their outrage.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (15 Aug 2017 2.51pm)

And you won't find me defending those c**ts either. I'm curious as to how that parallel gets drawn - I'm now somehow pro-Islamist terrorism.

My issue has always been more about how that gets equated so easily on the far right into 'all Muslims' to fit their agenda.

Oddly I'm pretty much on record here of being against uncontrolled immigration.

 


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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 15 Aug 17 3.43pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Do agree with that.

Put simply, why don't hedgehog Matt Stirling etc. when it comes to Venezuela amongst other countries they have never been to and know nothing about, just mind their own business???

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 15 Aug 17 4.08pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Pretty reasonable questions.

1) who exactly would they be protesting to, I don't think IS is has a UK office? Is the UK condoning or exploiting Islamist terrorism?
2) Again, how exactly would protest in the UK affect change in Zimbawe? Is the UK government not taking any action, or joined in the sanctions.
3) Reasonable, but again it kind of misses the point that who exactly would they be marching against and trying to leverage in the UK government.
4) Does North Korea even have a Embassy in the UK to picket? Does the UK have a diplomatic relationship with the North Koreans.
5) Similar with Venezula, I'm pretty sure that there isn't really much you could achieve in the UK.

Traditionally, you march in protest to affect change in your country. I never really understood the idea of protesting about things you've got no capacity to influence like a foreign nation - The idea generally is to leverage change in the UK, by influencing your government.

Way I saw it, the protesting of South Africa was about getting the UK Government to switch its support away from South Africa, not about trying to affect change in the country directly.

Protesting oppressive regimes, when your thousands of miles away, and your government is condoning them, isn't really sensible.

1. They could try a number of mosques that support them. Could also get the Muslim Council of Britain to do more, or indeed anything, about Islamic extremism in the UK.
2. Well, members of the left spent half their lives protesting about apartheid South Africa, what's the difference.
3. Ditto 2.
4. Their embassy is in New Malden! My sister used to live near it - until she joined the white flight from Greater London.
5. Well, again they protested about Pinochet's Chile, what's the difference.

You know as well as I do, that the left will only protest against things they see as right wing, the actual goings on can be the same or indeed worse, but they will turn a blind eye if the perpetrators are not on their hate list.

On your last point, you mean like the anti Vietnam War demos in the UK?

Edited by hedgehog50 (15 Aug 2017 4.14pm)

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 15 Aug 17 5.39pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

1. They could try a number of mosques that support them. Could also get the Muslim Council of Britain to do more, or indeed anything, about Islamic extremism in the UK.
2. Well, members of the left spent half their lives protesting about apartheid South Africa, what's the difference.
3. Ditto 2.
4. Their embassy is in New Malden! My sister used to live near it - until she joined the white flight from Greater London.
5. Well, again they protested about Pinochet's Chile, what's the difference.

You know as well as I do, that the left will only protest against things they see as right wing, the actual goings on can be the same or indeed worse, but they will turn a blind eye if the perpetrators are not on their hate list.

On your last point, you mean like the anti Vietnam War demos in the UK?

Edited by hedgehog50 (15 Aug 2017 4.14pm)

Well yeah, that does kind of make sense. Its a bit small world, but then the right don't tend to do anything much except complain about how everyone else is responsible for their misery

Never really bought into the protesting the Vietnam war whilst in the UK who weren't involved, but it was very fashionable in Germany and the UK (although I guess it might make sense during a state visit).

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 15 Aug 17 6.06pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

And you won't find me defending those c**ts either. I'm curious as to how that parallel gets drawn - I'm now somehow pro-Islamist terrorism.

My issue has always been more about how that gets equated so easily on the far right into 'all Muslims' to fit their agenda.

Oddly I'm pretty much on record here of being against uncontrolled immigration.

Not saying that.
I'm saying that the Left does not demonstrate against Islamists in the same way as they have the Far Right.
I'd have thought that Islamist behaviour should be as abhorrent to the Left as to the Right and even more abhorrent than the Far Right.

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 15 Aug 17 7.50pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

Re-edited because I am bored of this.

Edited by matt_himself (15 Aug 2017 1.29pm)

Not in the least surprised by that as you have sounded like a desperately broken record for a long time now. No more attention-seeking pms in my inbox too I guess. Ah, well...

 


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View simlaboy's Profile simlaboy Flag coulsdon 15 Aug 17 10.20pm Send a Private Message to simlaboy Add simlaboy as a friend

Forty years ago, wow, where does time go. I remember there old HQ down Pawsons Road, we would throw stones at the shutters on the way to school , all kinds of weirdos staying in there . They seem to have left the area around the time of the Terry May murder, can never remember them being anywhere near Palace at the time, surprised because other clubs were seen as ripe for recruitment.
Ran into them again in the summer of 80/81 in The Bedford Park in Streatham, I was seeing a barmaid in there , so was in there quite a bit. A complete load of tosspots, most of the hierarchy were perverted old leeches ,

 

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View mooro's Profile mooro Flag Within the Temples of Syrinx 15 Aug 17 11.30pm Send a Private Message to mooro Add mooro as a friend

I was born and bred on the Lee side of Lewisham and as a 14 year old remember walking through the high street with mates earlier in the day seeing so many shopkeepers boarding up their shops/premises before the march was due. Was relieved that the violence never spread as far as my mum's but seem to recall never seeing so many Union Jacks in one place. I believe this was the first time that the new style Police shields were actively used in the UK

 


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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 16 Aug 17 12.06am

Last 2 posts, great to have accounts from people what were around at the time. Thanks, that's what I was hoping for in this thread, not the I'm harder than you type gibbonjizz that it descended into.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 16 Aug 17 12.18am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Not saying that.
I'm saying that the Left does not demonstrate against Islamists in the same way as they have the Far Right.
I'd have thought that Islamist behaviour should be as abhorrent to the Left as to the Right and even more abhorrent than the Far Right.

Why do they need to demonstrate against Isis? Many on the left (and indeed across the political spectrum - well nearly all) attended vigils after recent terrorist attacks.

 

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