The battle of Lewisham.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Aug 17 12.55pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Firstly we need to differentiate between Black and Asian people just sticking up for themselves and White people who decide to take up their cause. I get the former but the latter better have a good personal reason for joining in. I have been out with Black and Asian girls in my youth and can remember at least one occasion when we got abuse from the local morons, but I never had any intention of marching about it. Racial tension is what always occurs when you try to enforce multi culturalism on a population who never wanted it. It is a predictable symptom and not something that I'm going to get arrested for. It is predictable human behaviour and I ain't keen on humans generally. I'm sure as hell not going to get in a street fight for complete strangers, Black or White. Natural progression, because the NF were also targeting the left wing (far and moderate) as well. If you wanted to support a left wing cause, sooner or later you'd come into contact with the NF et al. But I think standing up to bullies and thugs, is good enough as a goal, especially when those thugs and cts are numerous, organised and politically active. We're not talking about a few idiots and morons saying something, or taking the piss. We're talking about gangs of racist thugs kicking the st out of people on the basis of their skin. Also less altruistically, Youth Against Racism / ANL et al used to organise a lot of great concerts and events. Edited by jamiemartin721 (14 Aug 2017 12.56pm) "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Aug 17 12.55pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Firstly we need to differentiate between Black and Asian people just sticking up for themselves and White people who decide to take up their cause.

I get the former but the latter better have a good personal reason for joining in.
I have been out with Black and Asian girls in my youth and can remember at least one occasion when we got abuse from the local morons, but I never had any intention of marching about it.
Racial tension is what always occurs when you try to enforce multi culturalism on a population who never wanted it. It is a predictable symptom and not something that I'm going to get arrested for. It is predictable human behaviour and I ain't keen on humans generally. I'm sure as hell not going to get in a street fight for complete strangers, Black or White.

Natural progression, because the NF were also targeting the left wing (far and moderate) as well. If you wanted to support a left wing cause, sooner or later you'd come into contact with the NF et al.

But I think standing up to bullies and thugs, is good enough as a goal, especially when those thugs and c**ts are numerous, organised and politically active.

We're not talking about a few idiots and morons saying something, or taking the piss. We're talking about gangs of racist thugs kicking the s**t out of people on the basis of their skin.

Also less altruistically, Youth Against Racism / ANL et al used to organise a lot of great concerts and events.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (14 Aug 2017 12.56pm)

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Aug 17 1.20pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Natural progression, because the NF were also targeting the left wing (far and moderate) as well. If you wanted to support a left wing cause, sooner or later you'd come into contact with the NF et al. But I think standing up to bullies and thugs, is good enough as a goal, especially when those thugs and cts are numerous, organised and politically active. We're not talking about a few idiots and morons saying something, or taking the piss. We're talking about gangs of racist thugs kicking the st out of people on the basis of their skin. Also less altruistically, Youth Against Racism / ANL et al used to organise a lot of great concerts and events. Edited by jamiemartin721 (14 Aug 2017 12.56pm) OK, but I couldn't support an ideology that I think is flawed. I couldn't support either extreme. Defending people from violence is a job for the police is it not? I accept that they can't always protect people but if you start doing violence to the violent then you become part of the problem, even if you think you have right on your side. This is not a re run of WW2, it's social unrest casused by poor policy decisions.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 Aug 17 1.20pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

But I think standing up to bullies and thugs, is good enough as a goal, especially when those thugs and c**ts are numerous, organised and politically active.

We're not talking about a few idiots and morons saying something, or taking the piss. We're talking about gangs of racist thugs kicking the s**t out of people on the basis of their skin.

Also less altruistically, Youth Against Racism / ANL et al used to organise a lot of great concerts and events.

Edited by jamiemartin721 (14 Aug 2017 12.56pm)

OK, but I couldn't support an ideology that I think is flawed. I couldn't support either extreme.
Defending people from violence is a job for the police is it not? I accept that they can't always protect people but if you start doing violence to the violent then you become part of the problem, even if you think you have right on your side. This is not a re run of WW2, it's social unrest casused by poor policy decisions.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Aug 17 1.45pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger OK, but I couldn't support an ideology that I think is flawed. I couldn't support either extreme. Defending people from violence is a job for the police is it not? I accept that they can't always protect people but if you start doing violence to the violent then you become part of the problem, even if you think you have right on your side. This is not a re run of WW2, it's social unrest casused by poor policy decisions. People have a right to defend themselves and others. The police were notoriously poor back then at dealing with the far right (and the big focus was on football hooligans). If someone is doing violence unto others, or you, you're not breaking the law if you defend yourself and others. The ANL in my experience might have been 'looking for it' but they didn't go out trying to start it in the way the NF etc did. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 14 Aug 17 1.45pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

People have a right to defend themselves and others. The police were notoriously poor back then at dealing with the far right (and the big focus was on football hooligans). If someone is doing violence unto others, or you, you're not breaking the law if you defend yourself and others.

The ANL in my experience might have been 'looking for it' but they didn't go out trying to start it in the way the NF etc did.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Aug 17 1.52pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 People have a right to defend themselves and others. The police were notoriously poor back then at dealing with the far right (and the big focus was on football hooligans). If someone is doing violence unto others, or you, you're not breaking the law if you defend yourself and others. The ANL in my experience might have been 'looking for it' but they didn't go out trying to start it in the way the NF etc did. Their very attendance at an NF rally guaranteed violence and they knew that. I don't see counter demos as defending people. It is political pure and simple.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 Aug 17 1.52pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The ANL in my experience might have been 'looking for it' but they didn't go out trying to start it in the way the NF etc did.

Their very attendance at an NF rally guaranteed violence and they knew that. I don't see counter demos as defending people. It is political pure and simple.

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Kermit8 Hevon 14 Aug 17 1.54pm
Without the ANL the NF would have got stronger and their marches more numerous. But what really did for them was Thatcher getting into power. Well done Maggie. You took their fan base with you. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 14 Aug 17 1.54pm

Without the ANL the NF would have got stronger and their marches more numerous. But what really did for them was Thatcher getting into power. Well done Maggie. You took their fan base with you.

Big chest and massive boobs

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elgrande bedford 14 Aug 17 1.55pm
See this what I don't get, I was a little s*** in my younger days..big time,I grew up in Norwood did the skinhead thing,but to me it was more a fashion than anything else. I reckon half my mates were black and skinheads too. Apart from the odd scrap with the black gangs( which my black mates would side with us),we all got on. And we had some right capers,there was the banter between us,but that's all it was banter,I would eat my tea around their house and they would do the same...no racism...none. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 14 Aug 17 1.55pm

See this what I don't get, I was a little s*** in my younger days..big time,I grew up in Norwood did the skinhead thing,but to me it was more a fashion than anything else.
I reckon half my mates were black and skinheads too.
Apart from the odd scrap with the black gangs( which my black mates would side with us),we all got on.

And we had some right capers,there was the banter between us,but that's all it was banter,I would eat my tea around their house and they would do the same...no racism...none.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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Kermit8 Hevon 14 Aug 17 2.04pm
Originally posted by elgrande See this what I don't get, I was a little s*** in my younger days..big time,I grew up in Norwood did the skinhead thing,but to me it was more a fashion than anything else. I reckon half my mates were black and skinheads too. Apart from the odd scrap with the black gangs( which my black mates would side with us),we all got on. And we had some right capers,there was the banter between us,but that's all it was banter,I would eat my tea around their house and they would do the same...no racism...none. Yeah it is odd as it seemed to cover two areas quite distinctly. The fashion Skins and the Skins whose appearance was in line with their racial and political beliefs and to look at the two by dress you couldn't tell the difference. But around 1977 and into the early 80's the latter were causing some major trouble at leftie and ska type concerts on a regular basis. A time when they made the Union Jack a fascist symbol. Gits. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 14 Aug 17 2.04pm

Originally posted by elgrande

And we had some right capers,there was the banter between us,but that's all it was banter,I would eat my tea around their house and they would do the same...no racism...none.

Yeah it is odd as it seemed to cover two areas quite distinctly. The fashion Skins and the Skins whose appearance was in line with their racial and political beliefs and to look at the two by dress you couldn't tell the difference. But around 1977 and into the early 80's the latter were causing some major trouble at leftie and ska type concerts on a regular basis. A time when they made the Union Jack a fascist symbol. Gits.

Big chest and massive boobs

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 Aug 17 2.05pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Without the ANL the NF would have got stronger and their marches more numerous. But what really did for them was Thatcher getting into power. Well done Maggie. You took their fan base with you. That is pure conceit. Thr NF got nowhere because many of their members were thicko thugs and the average voter would have nothing to do with them. Clearly, some members of the other team are still dopey as well.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 Aug 17 2.05pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Without the ANL the NF would have got stronger and their marches more numerous. But what really did for them was Thatcher getting into power. Well done Maggie. You took their fan base with you.

That is pure conceit.
Thr NF got nowhere because many of their members were thicko thugs and the average voter would have nothing to do with them.
Clearly, some members of the other team are still dopey as well.

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elgrande bedford 14 Aug 17 2.10pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Yeah it is odd as it seemed to cover two areas quite distinctly. The fashion Skins and the Skins whose appearance was in line with their racial and political beliefs and to look at the two by dress you couldn't tell the difference. But around 1977 and into the early 80's the latter were causing some major trouble at leftie and ska type concerts on a regular basis. A time when they made the Union Jack a fascist symbol. Gits. See again I disagree,we loved ska,and reggae in fact the one and only time I ever was subject to real racism,was by the rasta who had the reggae stall at Brixton market..he refused to sell me a record and told me to f*** off white boy... But still got it anyway ..lol. But I can only go by my experience just as many black mates as white...mind you we made a formidable little team. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 14 Aug 17 2.10pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

See again I disagree,we loved ska,and reggae in fact the one and only time I ever was subject to real racism,was by the rasta who had the reggae stall at Brixton market..he refused to sell me a record and told me to f*** off white boy...

But still got it anyway ..lol.
But I can only go by my experience just as many black mates as white...mind you we made a formidable little team.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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Kermit8 Hevon 14 Aug 17 2.15pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger That is pure conceit. Thr NF got nowhere because many of their members were thicko thugs and the average voter would have nothing to do with them. Clearly, some members of the other team are still dopey as well. Well they managed to get close to UKIPs recent zenith percentage vote in local elections back in the mid 70's. Around 10%. Not insignificant. They had a hell of a lot of press coverage too. Best they were nipped in the bud just in case. Populism and all that. Can lead to daft voting. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 14 Aug 17 2.15pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is pure conceit.
Thr NF got nowhere because many of their members were thicko thugs and the average voter would have nothing to do with them.
Clearly, some members of the other team are still dopey as well.

Well they managed to get close to UKIPs recent zenith percentage vote in local elections back in the mid 70's. Around 10%. Not insignificant. They had a hell of a lot of press coverage too. Best they were nipped in the bud just in case. Populism and all that. Can lead to daft voting.

Big chest and massive boobs

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Kermit8 Hevon 14 Aug 17 2.20pm
Originally posted by elgrande See again I disagree,we loved ska,and reggae in fact the one and only time I ever was subject to real racism,was by the rasta who had the reggae stall at Brixton market..he refused to sell me a record and told me to f*** off white boy... But still got it anyway ..lol. But I can only go by my experience just as many black mates as white...mind you we made a formidable little team. No i know that. We aren't disagreeing. Loads of fashion skins and suedeheads and others loved ska but if you attended the concerts back then in the less salubrious parts of London there was more than a fair chance of the far right skins turning up to make sure the party got bloodily ruined. French skins were bad too for that if you followed your band abroad. Edited by Kermit8 (14 Aug 2017 2.21pm) Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 14 Aug 17 2.20pm

Originally posted by elgrande

No i know that. We aren't disagreeing. Loads of fashion skins and suedeheads and others loved ska but if you attended the concerts back then in the less salubrious parts of London there was more than a fair chance of the far right skins turning up to make sure the party got bloodily ruined. French skins were bad too for that if you followed your band abroad.

Edited by Kermit8 (14 Aug 2017 2.21pm)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 14 Aug 17 2.42pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Well they managed to get close to UKIPs recent zenith percentage vote in local elections back in the mid 70's. Around 10%. Not insignificant. They had a hell of a lot of press coverage too. Best they were nipped in the bud just in case. Populism and all that. Can lead to daft voting. The electorate does not vote for the far right or the far left in any significant numbers. A problem is that it is seen by many to be more or less ok to be far left, but totally unacceptable to be far right. They are the two sides of the same coin - both to be abhorred. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 14 Aug 17 2.42pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

The electorate does not vote for the far right or the far left in any significant numbers. A problem is that it is seen by many to be more or less ok to be far left, but totally unacceptable to be far right. They are the two sides of the same coin - both to be abhorred.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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