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March 28 2024 10.07am

Terror attack - Barcelona

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 18 Aug 17 1.28pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

You deliberately misrepresented someone else in the thread with a strawman argument- I did the same. Silly isn't it?....they aren't all 'nutjobs' by the way...not when you look into their backgrounds...they are violently anti western through their religious interpretation.

The point being- there are more than the 2 equally stupid responses at either end of the spectrum- the 'invite them round for a cup of tea' approach and the 'shoot them all dead for being a bit different' one.

Firstly- people who do this kind of thing are nutjobs who deserve everything coming to them. I am suggesting no other approach than punishment in the harshest terms for them (if they survive). Secondly- the UK governments 'Prevent' program was a great idea in theory, badly handled. However, it is the sort of program that should be being looked at as a way to prevent more of these madmen.

Does that clarify things? Or would you care to completely misrepresent me with a snide remark or two?

So your answer is.....while recognising that the kind of people who do this thing are 'nutjobs' that we should continue to work with prevent?....when you look into their backgrounds they aren't all nutjobs anyway....they are violently anti western through religious interpretation.

Is this the kind of thing that sounds ok talking around a dinner table with other civilized people perhaps....I think that perhaps it does.

I'm not going to say that 'prevent' is totally useless because if it stops one disenfranchised person then in raw terms it does something but in reality it is hugely ineffective.....and for blindingly obvious reasons.

The people who do these kinds of things aren't going to take pep talks from the 'enemy', even from within their communities. You can't 'prevent' family cultural attitudes, you can't 'prevent' pious understandings of religious texts, you can't 'prevent' them mixing with like minded friends.....You can't 'prevent' the Internet playing on them and twisting them.

As we are going to play the unlikely game of 'reform' then the only realistic chance is working through the mosques.....I would have them all sign up to a declaration that they support the separation of mosque and state and accept British law instead of Sharia.

Outside of them, you can't 'prevent' those on watch lists. Sod internment, if a judge agrees that there is enough evidence then they should be deported after reaching a financial agreement with a country like Turkey. If they don't accept western values then they can live in a country that is rapidly removing them anyway.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Aug 2017 1.32pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 18 Aug 17 1.50pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I don't support real human rights abuses...by that I mean physical violence by the state....I don't support that against an individual but I also know what kind of government Egypt would have if the army didn't rule there.

Don't think for one second the amount of human right abuses would go down one second.....they would just be transferred to another set of people.

So, it's like many of our relationships around the world, it's one of practical reality.

Ethical foreign policy has you only trading with the west and ultimately that makes China and Russia very rich.

I think the point is, that we should not be surprised, that if the UK contributes or in this case actually finances these abuses, that the victims may revisit our streets later on in revenge.

Supporting the Egypt police??????

Countries are not supposed to interfere in the internal affairs of others.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 18 Aug 17 2.01pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

I think the point is, that we should not be surprised, that if the UK contributes or in this case actually finances these abuses, that the victims may revisit our streets later on in revenge.

Supporting the Egypt police??????

Countries are not supposed to interfere in the internal affairs of others.

Who is talking about interfering? The matter is about trade.

If I give you money for cutting my grass and you give me money for mending your roof it is not legally my fault how you spend your half of the money....besides my money is a fraction of what you have coming in

Of course I may disapprove of how you spend it but the law is quite clear about it.

So again, all you do is strengthen far less ethical regimes still further.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Aug 2017 2.01pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 18 Aug 17 2.06pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Who is talking about interfering? The matter is about trade.

If I give you money for cutting my grass and you give me money for mending your roof it is not legally my fault how you spend your half of the money....besides my money is a fraction of what you have coming in

Of course I may disapprove of how you spend it but the law is quite clear about it.

So again, all you do is strengthen far less ethical regimes still further.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Aug 2017 2.01pm)

My post was nothing whatever to do with trade.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Online Flag 18 Aug 17 2.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

My post was nothing whatever to do with trade.

Well forgive me....what you on about?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View johnno42000's Profile johnno42000 Flag 18 Aug 17 5.46pm Send a Private Message to johnno42000 Add johnno42000 as a friend

I really don't think you can reach a non-violent agreement with these 'people'. Their view of what they want is just not realistically achievable by the countries of the world and they will certainly not move from their position.

With the situation in Ireland it was different. There were things that, eventually, both sides would relax their positions slightly over. I've no doubt that the Republicans still want a completely united Ireland and the Unionists won't ever want this to happen but there are enough relatively reasonable people on both sides that seem to keep the peace process alive and working.

Edited by johnno42000 (18 Aug 2017 5.47pm)

 


'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more'

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 18 Aug 17 5.57pm

Apparently it was a lone policeman who shot dead 4 of the 5 guys in the car. No doubt the European Court of F'in Nonsense will be on his case - racially aggravated unlawful killing I expect.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Romford-Eagle's Profile Romford-Eagle Flag Romford 18 Aug 17 8.23pm Send a Private Message to Romford-Eagle Add Romford-Eagle as a friend

I hear now that Spanish police are looking for the driver of the van, who fled after the attack, no doubt in the near future he will turn up in some flat in East Ham.......

 

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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 18 Aug 17 9.28pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Looking like there might be some more enrichment in Finland. Unconfirmed as a terror attack at present. Incorrect attribution to ISIS, as someone (seriously!) mixed up someone shouting "Varokaa" ("Watch out" in Finnish) with an enricher asking directions to Alan's Snackbar.

Genuine question. Because the combined number of enrichment victims appears to not motivate genuine action, nor does any one event (save for offering epileptic fits to Parisians, given the rapidity with which the Eiffel tower changes flag):

How many victims in one atrocity will it take for some profound, concerted, coordinated action? At what point do we move beyond the shoulder shrugging "let's light another tea light"?

Do 100 have to die? 300? 1000? If ISIS were to slaughter 1000 people somehow in, say, Dublin. Would May's "enough is enough" finally mean something other than empty rhetoric? Remember when she actually said that? lol

 

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View Kermit8's Profile Kermit8 Flag Hevon 18 Aug 17 9.39pm Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Looking like there might be some more enrichment in Finland. Unconfirmed as a terror attack at present. Incorrect attribution to ISIS, as someone (seriously!) mixed up someone shouting "Varokaa" ("Watch out" in Finnish) with an enricher asking directions to Alan's Snackbar.

Genuine question. Because the combined number of enrichment victims appears to not motivate genuine action, nor does any one event (save for offering epileptic fits to Parisians, given the rapidity with which the Eiffel tower changes flag):

How many victims in one atrocity will it take for some profound, concerted, coordinated action? At what point do we move beyond the shoulder shrugging "let's light another tea light"?

Do 100 have to die? 300? 1000? If ISIS were to slaughter 1000 people somehow in, say, Dublin. Would May's "enough is enough" finally mean something other than empty rhetoric? Remember when she actually said that? lol

Funny even given its context.

Well, 3,000 died in New York yet still nothing was done re: Saudi building of Wahhabist-friendly mosques around the globe so 1,000 dead in Dublin? Nah. I mean what can they do? It's not as if most of ISIS had gathered in a relatively small geographical area recently, is it? Appears we need more than just dead bodies these days for something to be done. Pictures of Vladimir with his cock up an English football hooligan's bum might help.

Edited by Kermit8 (18 Aug 2017 9.40pm)

 


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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 18 Aug 17 9.47pm Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

Funny even given its context.

Well, 3,000 died in New York yet still nothing was done re: Saudi building of Wahhabist-friendly mosques around the globe so 1,000 dead in Dublin? Nah. I mean what can they do? It's not as if most of ISIS had gathered in a relatively small geographical area recently, is it? Appears we need more than just dead bodies these days for something to be done. Pictures of Vladimir with his cock up an English football hooligan's bum might help.

Edited by Kermit8 (18 Aug 2017 9.40pm)

Sorry, you're trying to suggest that US foreign policy didn't change much after 9/11? Or that the-cancer-that-shall-not-be-named spread despite US reaction to 9/11? Or because of? Whatever your stance (and it's futile postulating hypothetical branches of reality), to suggest that fairly significant action was taken post 9/11 is... odd....

 

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.TUX. Flag 18 Aug 17 9.48pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Looking like there might be some more enrichment in Finland. Unconfirmed as a terror attack at present. Incorrect attribution to ISIS, as someone (seriously!) mixed up someone shouting "Varokaa" ("Watch out" in Finnish) with an enricher asking directions to Alan's Snackbar.

Genuine question. Because the combined number of enrichment victims appears to not motivate genuine action, nor does any one event (save for offering epileptic fits to Parisians, given the rapidity with which the Eiffel tower changes flag):

How many victims in one atrocity will it take for some profound, concerted, coordinated action? At what point do we move beyond the shoulder shrugging "let's light another tea light"?

Do 100 have to die? 300? 1000? If ISIS were to slaughter 1000 people somehow in, say, Dublin. Would May's "enough is enough" finally mean something other than empty rhetoric? Remember when she actually said that? lol

I don't believe there ever will be.
Situations such as this massively benefit those who (cough cough) 'govern' us through tighter regulations etc, treating us all as criminals, so why would they do anything to stop it?
They love it.

 


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