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April 19 2024 12.43am

Hate crimes: Fresh guidance on online offences

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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 21 Aug 17 10.36am Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

You do know that anti-fascist for most is not an insult, don't you? Obviously not. I wonder why?

Is it possible to be against fascism* and NOT support antifa? Genuine question. Please answer, because I suspect "for most":

"Anti-fascist" does not equal "antifa"

*genuine, actual fascism, not the kind that exists in your lobotomised mind

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 21 Aug 17 10.36am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Oh that's going to cause some fun when a religious zealot posts his/her beliefs about homosexuality, or a fervent atheist tweets about any follower of any faith being a sucker for pie-in-the-sky-fairy nonsense....

Who's beliefs will be top trumps?

Who will decide the top trump order?

Will there be the facility for counter-claim by the accused where there is a clash of ideologies?

.......meanwhile, the real criminals of this world can rob, burgle, rape pillage, plunder, drive without licence or insurance et. al. whilst the police and CPS battle over who gets most offended by someone else's opinion.

 


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View davenotamonkey's Profile davenotamonkey Flag 21 Aug 17 10.43am Send a Private Message to davenotamonkey Add davenotamonkey as a friend

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Is it possible to be against fascism* and NOT support antifa? Genuine question. Please answer, because I suspect "for most":

"Anti-fascist" does not equal "antifa"

*genuine, actual fascism, not the kind that exists in your lobotomised mind

Perhaps I can be more explicit here:

You can have a stance that is against fascism without donning all-black, wearing a mask, seeking out and targeting those with whom you disagree with (they don't actually have to be fascist - just as long as you disagree with them), and then physically attacking them.

Because that MO, which is the stated aim and methodology of "Antifa", is what has them classified as a terrorist organisation in the state of New Jersey.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 21 Aug 17 10.57am

Originally posted by becky

Oh that's going to cause some fun when a religious zealot posts his/her beliefs about homosexuality, or a fervent atheist tweets about any follower of any faith being a sucker for pie-in-the-sky-fairy nonsense....

Who's beliefs will be top trumps?

Who will decide the top trump order?

Will there be the facility for counter-claim by the accused where there is a clash of ideologies?

.......meanwhile, the real criminals of this world can rob, burgle, rape pillage, plunder, drive without licence or insurance et. al. whilst the police and CPS battle over who gets most offended by someone else's opinion.

Well put, In practice I expect only 'hate crimes' against left wing sacred cows will be prosecuted. I'm going to the dentist tomorrow - hate it - hope I'm not reported for it.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 Aug 17 11.42am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

You do know that anti-fascist for most is not an insult, don't you? Obviously not. I wonder why?

I can't work out if you are deliberately obtuse or just terminally thick.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 21 Aug 17 11.53am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Perhaps I can be more explicit here:

You can have a stance that is against fascism without donning all-black, wearing a mask, seeking out and targeting those with whom you disagree with (they don't actually have to be fascist - just as long as you disagree with them), and then physically attacking them.

Because that MO, which is the stated aim and methodology of "Antifa", is what has them classified as a terrorist organisation in the state of New Jersey.

Seconded.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Mr_Gristle's Profile Mr_Gristle Flag In the land of Whelk Eaters 21 Aug 17 12.42pm Send a Private Message to Mr_Gristle Add Mr_Gristle as a friend

There are definitely some terrible views actively promoted on the Internet. However, I'm not comfortable with state-enforced orthodoxy.

As Becky said, who sets the rules? Who defines what is and isn't acceptable comment?

The world is fast becoming somewhere were dissenting or competing opinions are unable to be expressed and debated - they just get shouted down or, perhaps now, get labelled as subversive.

HoL General Talk is actually a wonderfully accurate illustration that proves the point.

 


Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 21 Aug 17 12.46pm

It would be helpful if the government could supply us with a list of who and what it is acceptable to hate these days.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Aug 17 12.49pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Why the term 'hate crime' was ever allowed to be coined is beyond me. Abuse, rape, murder...they were already crimes.

Because there is a difference between crimes in relation to rehabilitation and protecting the public.

For example, I get sent down for assault from a fight in a pub because of an argument over a girlfriend. Easy rehabilitation, specific events and the danger to the public.

I go out an assault someone because they're black. Very different picture in terms of rehabilitation and danger to the public.

Now in terms of online hate crime - I think its a tricky subject, because you have to balance the notion of free speech with the reality of the offence. Now if you're going around posting threats against people, yeah then that's a crime.

Also, all rape should be considered a hate crime.

 


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[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Aug 17 12.52pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

It would be helpful if the government could supply us with a list of who and what it is acceptable to hate these days.

No one, I believe is the ideal. I hate some ideas that people have, such as far right ideas, but that doesn't mean I hate the person.

The only people I think I have any real hate for, are all dead or spending very long terms in prison.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 21 Aug 17 12.57pm

Originally posted by davenotamonkey

Is it possible to be against fascism* and NOT support antifa? Genuine question. Please answer, because I suspect "for most":

"Anti-fascist" does not equal "antifa"

*genuine, actual fascism, not the kind that exists in your lobotomised mind

Apparently not to the far right and right wing, who seem to often be equating them. I find it odd that anything called antifa exists. Surely its fascists and apologists for fascists and everyone else in the world.

In terms of free speech, I don't really have a problem with restricting the free speech of the very far left and very far right, as neither really believe in free speech anyway.

Nazism, Fascism, Communism are as pointless to debate as feudalism and agrarianism. They're dead ideas, that have been proven to be morally and ethically bankrupt.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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View Rubin's Profile Rubin Flag 21 Aug 17 1.03pm Send a Private Message to Rubin Add Rubin as a friend

Originally posted by Kermit8

You do know that anti-fascist for most is not an insult, don't you? Obviously not. I wonder why?

Please don't tell me that you believe that antifa are actually anti fascist.

They meet all the requirements to be classed as a terrorist group in the US.

Edited by Rubin (21 Aug 2017 1.05pm)

 

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