England Ashes squad
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 Stirlingsays  19 Dec 17 4.03pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Has no one figured out yet that you have to be way better than the opposition to win away in international cricket? The game is largely about conditions and the player's ability to play those conditions. Our guys have cut their teeth and become successful mostly playing English wickets and invariably suck abroad. It has never been any different and works the same to a greater or lesser for all countries. Didn't stop the West Indies managing it and Australia after them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Midlands Eagle 19 Dec 17 4.18pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The game is largely about conditions and the player's ability to play those conditions. Our guys have cut their teeth and become successful mostly playing English wickets and invariably suck abroad. It has never been any different and works the same to a greater or lesser for all countries. Surely that is what the "Test" in Test Cricket is all about as it's a test of skill in all different conditions. Great cricketers are great in whatever countries they play in. Batsmen like Tendulkar and Lara scored hundreds in every country they played in and the top quality bowlers took wickets everywhere too. Going back a couple of decades it didn't matter what country Waqar and Wasim bowled in as they took wickets everywhere and more recently Mitchell Johnson, Glenn McGrath and Brett Lee did the same (when in form) The problem with our bowling is that "proper cricket" has been sidelined to the beginning and end of the season where conditions in England favour medium paced swing bowlers and we now play one day and 20/20 cricket in mid summer when the pitches are flatter
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| Hrolf The Ganger 19 Dec 17 4.59pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Didn't stop the West Indies managing it and Australia after them. The home side has to be very inferior to lose as I said.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 19 Dec 17 5.05pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Surely that is what the "Test" in Test Cricket is all about as it's a test of skill in all different conditions. Great cricketers are great in whatever countries they play in. Batsmen like Tendulkar and Lara scored hundreds in every country they played in and the top quality bowlers took wickets everywhere too. Going back a couple of decades it didn't matter what country Waqar and Wasim bowled in as they took wickets everywhere and more recently Mitchell Johnson, Glenn McGrath and Brett Lee did the same (when in form) The problem with our bowling is that "proper cricket" has been sidelined to the beginning and end of the season where conditions in England favour medium paced swing bowlers and we now play one day and 20/20 cricket in mid summer when the pitches are flatter I think you are right about proper cricket but you mention exceptional players. How many exceptional players do England have?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 19 Dec 17 5.07pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Not really. Home advantage is a huge factor in most sports. More so when the equipment changes, like the ball. Remember when Guardiola's side had to use a Mitre ball in the cup? People used to moan about the rugby ball used in Italy too, as it was the only six nations side that didn't use a Gilbert ball. That was Mitre too funnily enough. Not like cricket.
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| Stirlingsays 19 Dec 17 5.11pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The home side has to be very inferior to lose as I said. Sure there is home advantage and it is real.... but it can be overestimated and I think you are perhaps doing that a little. Teams do and have won aboard in the past....it's become less common in the modern era for different reasons. Gower and Botham were never 'very inferior'.....we had quality players during both those eras....better than this shower anyway....the article linked to by Midland is highly accurate in my view. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2017 5.11pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Midlands Eagle 19 Dec 17 7.15pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think you are right about proper cricket but you mention exceptional players. How many exceptional players do England have? Three Unfortunately one is barred from playing by the ECB and the other two are badly out of nick. Class players do lose form and you may recall that one of the best fast bowlers of recent years bowled to the left, bowled to the right, Mitchell Johnson just bowled shyte. He recovered his form for the next Ashes series and decimated the England batting on his own
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 19 Dec 17 7.44pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Sure there is home advantage and it is real.... but it can be overestimated and I think you are perhaps doing that a little. Teams do and have won aboard in the past....it's become less common in the modern era for different reasons. Gower and Botham were never 'very inferior'.....we had quality players during both those eras....better than this shower anyway....the article linked to by Midland is highly accurate in my view. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Dec 2017 5.11pm) 'this shower' weren't considered to be a shower about a month ago though plenty were fearful that what has happened would happen. Moheen has been a non-event, they said they'd end Cook's career and they have, Broad and Anderson are past their best etc etc Sure us and New Zealand have the greenest wickets out of all the test countries - I don't know enough about cricket, but I reckon the reason why we have consistently, apart from recently strangely, been second rate is the other side of the coin to why we are also second rate at football. Public schools in England play Rugby instead of football, and our cricketers are posh school educated way out of proportion to state funded plebs such as I. There's still a bit of 'gentleman and players' going on, it's the same with tennis - what is the class system doing f*cking up our sports? In America and Australia they have a 'can do' mentality and an 'everyman' culture - we don't, we have much more snobbery and glass ceilings than most people realise, it goes deep and I believe it inhibits progress in all sorts of areas, sport particularly strangely, but it's why we no longer have a car industry or make stuff - we have academic and vocational instead of technical education - if you want to be a formula one car mechanic you do your apprenticeship in Holland or Germany. Need a few more Ben Stokes types - as long as rugby and cricket are posh and football is plebby we'll be sh*te at all of them.
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| Midlands Eagle 20 Dec 17 6.13am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
I reckon the reason why we have consistently, apart from recently strangely, been second rate is the other side of the coin to why we are also second rate at football. Public schools in England play Rugby instead of football, and our cricketers are posh school educated way out of proportion to state funded plebs such as I. There's still a bit of 'gentleman and players' going on, it's the same with tennis - what is the class system doing f*cking up our sports? You're years out of date. Without Googling all of the players I would guess that only Alastair Cook went to public school with all of the others going to the same sort of secondary schools as most of the readers of this forum
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 20 Dec 17 11.08am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
You're years out of date. Without Googling all of the players I would guess that only Alastair Cook went to public school with all of the others going to the same sort of secondary schools as most of the readers of this forum Check this out ... [Link] There's a mix of private and state but the private dominates too much - the facilities and coaching in private would appear to be vastly superior, and our attitude to private education is culturally different here to other countries - we have a posh club, they ran tennis, players bowed to the Duchess of Kent, we produced terrible tennis players, the LTA, the MCC the FA, the Jockey Club - not as powerful as they were but a snob culture still persists, the same snob culture that chose Hodgson over Redknapp and Greenwood over Clough - Aussie sport is full of uppity talent, look at Eddie Jones and Michael Cheka, we seem unable to produce coaches like them, or players/coaches like Klinnsman, Klopp, Seedorf - with high intelligence. I'm not years out of date, we've moved on a bit but I genuinely reckon the posh person's fear of intelligence is imbued in the ways we organize things, and is the prime reason for our long term sporting failure. Why is Rugby middle class and football working class (not to mention League and Union - and the snobbery league players get when they transfer to union)? They aren't in other countries, only in the UK and it's why we're not good at either - cricket fits into this picture.
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| chris123 hove actually 20 Dec 17 11.42am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
Check this out ... [Link] There's a mix of private and state but the private dominates too much - the facilities and coaching in private would appear to be vastly superior, and our attitude to private education is culturally different here to other countries - we have a posh club, they ran tennis, players bowed to the Duchess of Kent, we produced terrible tennis players, the LTA, the MCC the FA, the Jockey Club - not as powerful as they were but a snob culture still persists, the same snob culture that chose Hodgson over Redknapp and Greenwood over Clough - Aussie sport is full of uppity talent, look at Eddie Jones and Michael Cheka, we seem unable to produce coaches like them, or players/coaches like Klinnsman, Klopp, Seedorf - with high intelligence. I'm not years out of date, we've moved on a bit but I genuinely reckon the posh person's fear of intelligence is imbued in the ways we organize things, and is the prime reason for our long term sporting failure. Why is Rugby middle class and football working class (not to mention League and Union - and the snobbery league players get when they transfer to union)? They aren't in other countries, only in the UK and it's why we're not good at either - cricket fits into this picture. I blame the teachers - clearly wholly unable to inspire sporting excellence in the state system.
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| Stuk Top half 15 Jan 18 2.22pm |
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Charged with affray, along with the two dicks who started it all. 4 months to decide that! If I were being cynical I'd guess that the court date is somehow going to be smack bang in the middle of the IPL window.
Optimistic as ever |
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