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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Oct 17 5.21pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

All these events faked! Hitler's death, JKK, his brother, Princess Diana, 9/11, 7/7, the moon landings, the guy's suicide whose name I can't remember at the moment ... please tell me that scrapping a draw against West Ham didn't really happen.

So your position is that you believe everything you are told without question?

Good luck with that.

I will keep an open mind.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Oct 17 5.29pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Hitler was probably the second worst human in terms of being responsible for last century deaths but he was no coward.

Being a runner in WW1 with multiple decorations proved that.

He took the military way out. He feared being captured by the Russians as he knew what would be coming....humiliation and a nasty end was something he inflicted on others. He wasn't sticking around for feedback. If the USSR seriously thought he'd escaped they would have gone to the moon and back looking for him.

Or maybe that's just a bit of bully....and he found a new career pole dancing in some of the more sophisticated Paris nightclubs.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Oct 2017 3.06pm)


There is a good chance he died in Berlin. If not his survival would not have been made public for obvious reasons. Other than testimony there is no evidence either way.

I would note however that the likes of the Hog and yourself are quite happy to accept people's word on Hitler's death. I will remind you of that next time someone formally in the military or government comes out and says that Alien visitation is real.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Oct 17 6.45pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


There is a good chance he died in Berlin. If not his survival would not have been made public for obvious reasons. Other than testimony there is no evidence either way.

I would note however that the likes of the Hog and yourself are quite happy to accept people's word on Hitler's death. I will remind you of that next time someone formally in the military or government comes out and says that Alien visitation is real.

It's certainly true that no one can be certain of everything as we only have our senses and our reasoning.

However, you if are going to travel down this route of suspecting everything you can't know through personal verification then I think you quickly run into issues.

For example, why would we believe in atoms? Why would I believe that we live on a globe?

I tend to ignore conspiracy theories that don't really affect me....unless they interest me. From my secondary research I don't believe there were but If indeed there were multiple shooters of Kennedy I'm pretty sure that it isn't going to affect my life.

From my knowledge of human nature I know that secrets are difficult to keep if it benefits anyone from revealing them. So as the saying goes...three can keep a secret if two of them are dead....People talk.

If a conspiracy requires a reasonable number of people to know about it for success.....I just don't believe that it can confidently be relied upon to succeed.....The risk to the planners is huge.

That one for example is just one of several big common sense dents in the 9/11 theories. Similar with Kennedy.....though the numbers required would be smaller and while a conspiracy isn't likely it's more feasible than 9/11.

Outside of the Soviets having killed everyone on their side and Oswald being the only westerner.....but na...it's been over fifty frigging years.....also the risks to the Soviets was huge for no real gain. Plus I never came across any contention that wasn't explainable.

Very unlikely.

As for Hitler, If you know much about Hitler from reading about him, you can be quite sure that he would have shot himself rather than be taken by the Soviets. Then there are quite a few reasonable problems for an escape theory to hurdle before it gets to be something reasonable to believe.

But this is just my take.


Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Oct 2017 6.51pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 28 Oct 17 6.58pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There is a good chance he died in Berlin. If not his survival would not have been made public for obvious reasons. Other than testimony there is no evidence either way.

I would note however that the likes of the Hog and yourself are quite happy to accept people's word on Hitler's death. I will remind you of that next time someone formally in the military or government comes out and says that Alien visitation is real.

All the survivors from the bunker gave the same story. What possible motive would they have to make it up. If you were going to make something up to generate interest and money, you would say he escaped.
What about the moon landings, do you think they are fake?

Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Oct 2017 6.58pm)

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Oct 17 7.14pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's certainly true that no one can be certain of everything as we only have our senses and our reasoning.

However, you if are going to travel down this route of suspecting everything you can't know through personal verification then I think you quickly run into issues.

For example, why would we believe in atoms? Why would I believe that we live on a globe?

I tend to ignore conspiracy theories that don't really affect me....unless they interest me. From my secondary research I don't believe there were but If indeed there were multiple shooters of Kennedy I'm pretty sure that it isn't going to affect my life.

From my knowledge of human nature I know that secrets are difficult to keep if it benefits anyone from revealing them. So as the saying goes...three can keep a secret if two of them are dead....People talk.

If a conspiracy requires a reasonable number of people to know about it for success.....I just don't believe that it can confidently be relied upon to succeed.....The risk to the planners is huge.

That one for example is just one of several big common sense dents in the 9/11 theories. Similar with Kennedy.....though the numbers required would be smaller and while a conspiracy isn't likely it's more feasible than 9/11.

Outside of the Soviets having killed everyone on their side and Oswald being the only westerner.....but na...it's been over fifty frigging years.....also the risks to the Soviets was huge for no real gain. Plus I never came across any contention that wasn't explainable.

Very unlikely.

As for Hitler, If you know much about Hitler from reading about him, you can be quite sure that he would have shot himself rather than be taken by the Soviets. Then there are quite a few reasonable problems for an escape theory to hurdle before it gets to be something reasonable to believe.

But this is just my take.


Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Oct 2017 6.51pm)

I think there is a difference between believing in science and stuff that governments tell you.
Science, of course, is by no means infallible but has proved sufficiently reliable to put a large degree of faith in. Governments and officialdom, on the other hand, have not.
When I'm told that the Earth is not flat, I find it reasonable to accept because of the weight of evidence and a lack of possible agenda to cause any need to lie about it. In some conspiricy theories, there are plausable reasons why someone might hide the truth.
Does that mean they are true? No. Does it give grounds for speculation? Certainly


 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 28 Oct 17 7.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think there is a difference between believing in science and stuff that governments tell you.
Science, of course, is by no means infallible but has proved sufficiently reliable to put a large degree of faith in. Governments and officialdom, on the other hand, have not.
When I'm told that the Earth is not flat, I find it reasonable to accept because of the weight of evidence and a lack of possible agenda to cause any need to lie about it. In some conspiricy theories, there are plausable reasons why someone might hide the truth.
Does that mean they are true? No. Does it give grounds for speculation? Certainly

Do you think the universe began with a spontaneous 'big bang' out of nothing - as 'science' tells us?

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Oct 17 7.27pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

All the survivors from the bunker gave the same story. What possible motive would they have to make it up. If you were going to make something up to generate interest and money, you would say he escaped.
What about the moon landings, do you think they are fake?

Edited by hedgehog50 (28 Oct 2017 6.58pm)

Well one could speculate that if Hitler had escaped they might want to give the impression that he was dead out of loyalty.

There is a large weight of evidence to say that the Moon landings were real and it would be easy to prove it by taking a close up picture of the landing sights using a satellite.
It is odd that they haven't and strange that we have not been back since, but neither of those are proof that we didn't go. There is a very interesting film that appears to show the crew faking the distance they were from Earth but I am not expert enough to comment on it.
In the end we have to decide what to believe by evaluating the evidence available.

 

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Oct 17 7.31pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Do you think the universe began with a spontaneous 'big bang' out of nothing - as 'science' tells us?

If I knew that for sure, I would probably have a Nobel prize.
The weight of opinion is that it did but they could all be wrong of course.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 28 Oct 17 7.34pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Well one could speculate that if Hitler had escaped they might want to give the impression that he was dead out of loyalty.

There is a large weight of evidence to say that the Moon landings were real and it would be easy to prove it by taking a close up picture of the landing sights using a satellite.
It is odd that they haven't and strange that we have not been back since, but neither of those are proof that we didn't go. There is a very interesting film that appears to show the crew faking the distance they were from Earth but I am not expert enough to comment on it.
In the end we have to decide what to believe by evaluating the evidence available.

Come on H, you seriously question the moon landings!? Why on earth/moon would they do that?
Why would all the people in the bunker go on for years saying Hitler killed himself - years after he would have died of old age anyway. Also, Hitler raged against a Field Marshall that did not commit suicide when defeated. He saw what happened to Mussolini and wanted to avoid that.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Oct 17 7.37pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

When I'm told that the Earth is not flat, I find it reasonable to accept because of the weight of evidence and a lack of possible agenda to cause any need to lie about it. In some conspiricy theories, there are plausable reasons why someone might hide the truth.
Does that mean they are true? No. Does it give grounds for speculation? Certainly


I don't see any issue with checking things out for yourself myself. After all the whole advantages of being a skeptic is that you don't just accept what you are told.

I personally think that it's very important that we have a society where you can research and verify most things yourself. For example, we can explore general relativity, if we put enough time in, via the gravitational redshift of light or the deflection of light by the sun.

On human relational matters, you can read accounts and records and study recordings of past events and come to conclusions.

We are lucky to live in a society where this is even possible now.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Oct 17 7.47pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Come on H, you seriously question the moon landings!? Why on earth/moon would they do that?
Why would all the people in the bunker go on for years saying Hitler killed himself - years after he would have died of old age anyway. Also, Hitler raged against a Field Marshall that did not commit suicide when defeated. He saw what happened to Mussolini and wanted to avoid that.

It is healthy to question things Hog.
I'm not suggesting that I think Hitler lived. I'm just saying that it is possible. The only physical evidence to support the testimony turned out to be erroneous.

As I said, the Moon landings could easily be proved.
The obvious answer to you why they would fake them is to give the impression that they had won the space race. That is fairly obvious.
You only believe that man went to the Moon because you saw it on TV from one relay satellite like everyone else at NASA mission control.
I'd be very upset if they were faked. It would feel like my whole life had been a lie. I choose to believe it was real.

 

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View matthau's Profile matthau Flag South Croydon 28 Oct 17 7.48pm Send a Private Message to matthau Add matthau as a friend

Aliens are real. Have visited.

[Link]

 

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