EU army concerns

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Oct 17 9.55am
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle I would bet your pension on a majority of history degree holders being "remainers". It's 2 for 2 in my household, just to illustrate the point. Feel free to investigate the Telegraph's stats here to see how the "least knowledgeable" actually voted.... Are you suggesting that highly-educated people "just don't get it"? There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them. [Orwell] Edited by hedgehog50 (05 Oct 2017 9.55am) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Oct 17 9.55am

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

I would bet your pension on a majority of history degree holders being "remainers". It's 2 for 2 in my household, just to illustrate the point.

Feel free to investigate the Telegraph's stats here to see how the "least knowledgeable" actually voted....

Are you suggesting that highly-educated people "just don't get it"?

There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them. [Orwell]

Edited by hedgehog50 (05 Oct 2017 9.55am)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 05 Oct 17 10.20am
Ok a 100% Brexiter here. If the young are so enlightened I would like someone under say 25, to tell me exactly how leaving the EU will affect you directly. I would ask you to personalise your reasons for wanting to remain, not what you read on some half arsed slogan on one of the great unwashed's placard. It's just that I'm interested to know what exactly it is that us old duffers are supposed to be robbing you of ? Be anti establishment all you want, but don't be so blinkered as to believe the EU has Britain's best interest at heart. "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 05 Oct 17 10.20am

Ok a 100% Brexiter here. If the young are so enlightened I would like someone under say 25, to tell me exactly how leaving the EU will affect you directly. I would ask you to personalise your reasons for wanting to remain, not what you read on some half arsed slogan on one of the great unwashed's placard.

It's just that I'm interested to know what exactly it is that us old duffers are supposed to be robbing you of ?

Be anti establishment all you want, but don't be so blinkered as to believe the EU has Britain's best interest at heart.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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Stirlingsays 05 Oct 17 10.27am
Originally posted by leifandersonshair Ah of course, us silly naive youngsters with our pesky degrees, voting against the wise and definitely not foolishly nostalgic elders. How dare we! Vote for who you want. But yes, it's a foolish vote. As for degrees, that's a silly thing to mention. Originally posted by leifandersonshair Is it not possible that the young are fully aware of the EU, and what it stands for- but rather than being afraid, and wanting to go hide under a rock, muttering about WW2, would like to be part of something larger? Something better than an insignificant island nation, largely irrelevant on the world stage? It's entirely possible and it's why those that see this as a good idea for the EU are mistaken. Originally posted by leifandersonshair Out of genuine interest- British forces have served as part of UN peacekeeping forces. Do you object to this in the same way you do to an 'EU army'? Nope, the UN peacekeeping forces are fine. Do you not see the distinctions here? The UN includes all of the west within it, whereas the EU does not. There is no possible muddling of interest between the EU and the US. The UN peace keeping forces have specific missions, also agreed with the US and host nations. No possibility of conflict or a splitting of the west there. The UN peace keeping forces are still members of their own country's forces. They can be withdrawn by them and have ultimate loyalty to them. An EU army would be soldiers paid for by the EU, hence that is a shifting over of loyalty base. This is a very bad idea when the core of the EU is not democratic and has already shown a willingness to support force as a means of stopping democratic splits. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Oct 17 10.27am

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Ah of course, us silly naive youngsters with our pesky degrees, voting against the wise and definitely not foolishly nostalgic elders. How dare we!

Vote for who you want. But yes, it's a foolish vote. As for degrees, that's a silly thing to mention.

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Is it not possible that the young are fully aware of the EU, and what it stands for- but rather than being afraid, and wanting to go hide under a rock, muttering about WW2, would like to be part of something larger? Something better than an insignificant island nation, largely irrelevant on the world stage?

It's entirely possible and it's why those that see this as a good idea for the EU are mistaken.

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Out of genuine interest- British forces have served as part of UN peacekeeping forces. Do you object to this in the same way you do to an 'EU army'?

Nope, the UN peacekeeping forces are fine. Do you not see the distinctions here?

The UN includes all of the west within it, whereas the EU does not. There is no possible muddling of interest between the EU and the US.

The UN peace keeping forces have specific missions, also agreed with the US and host nations. No possibility of conflict or a splitting of the west there.

The UN peace keeping forces are still members of their own country's forces. They can be withdrawn by them and have ultimate loyalty to them.

An EU army would be soldiers paid for by the EU, hence that is a shifting over of loyalty base. This is a very bad idea when the core of the EU is not democratic and has already shown a willingness to support force as a means of stopping democratic splits.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Oct 17 10.36am
Would/will this EU army be sent into Catalonia? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Oct 17 10.36am

Would/will this EU army be sent into Catalonia?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Stirlingsays 05 Oct 17 10.44am
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle I would bet your pension on a majority of history degree holders being "remainers". It's 2 for 2 in my household, just to illustrate the point. Feel free to investigate the Telegraph's stats here to see how the "least knowledgeable" actually voted.... [Link] Are you suggesting that highly-educated people "just don't get it"? You really are turning into a busted flush on General Talk Stirling - I hope you rediscover your form of past times soon. Edited by Mr_Gristle (05 Oct 2017 8.52am) Edited by Mr_Gristle (05 Oct 2017 8.53am) I think you conflate education level with worldview here. To illustrate how mistaken that is, let's think about what the politics of those with degrees in China are? They are broadly in line with the nation's interest because that's how they have been taught. Being in education myself, it's a open secret about politicization at higher levels in the humanities and that added to the natural 'change' element of youth explains a lot. This educational bias towards the left from those in teaching is palpable....to the extent that I have to silence myself in the staffroom whenever the topic is political...not a particularly good thing. Where I'd agree is that highly educated people tend to be more libertarian than authoritarian in viewpoint. But that doesn't necessarily break down into left or right structures or correspond to every area of politics. For example, I'm a social libertarian, but quite hard line on foreign policy. Lastly, I'm sorry, my views have become a 'busted flush' for you....one of my own favourite phrases there. You will just have to turn to some better ideological bedfellows on EU matters I suppose. No doubt we shall from time to time we shall agree on matters. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.56am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Oct 17 10.44am

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

I would bet your pension on a majority of history degree holders being "remainers". It's 2 for 2 in my household, just to illustrate the point.

Feel free to investigate the Telegraph's stats here to see how the "least knowledgeable" actually voted....

[Link]

Are you suggesting that highly-educated people "just don't get it"?

You really are turning into a busted flush on General Talk Stirling - I hope you rediscover your form of past times soon.

Edited by Mr_Gristle (05 Oct 2017 8.52am)

Edited by Mr_Gristle (05 Oct 2017 8.53am)

I think you conflate education level with worldview here.

To illustrate how mistaken that is, let's think about what the politics of those with degrees in China are? They are broadly in line with the nation's interest because that's how they have been taught.

Being in education myself, it's a open secret about politicization at higher levels in the humanities and that added to the natural 'change' element of youth explains a lot. This educational bias towards the left from those in teaching is palpable....to the extent that I have to silence myself in the staffroom whenever the topic is political...not a particularly good thing.

Where I'd agree is that highly educated people tend to be more libertarian than authoritarian in viewpoint. But that doesn't necessarily break down into left or right structures or correspond to every area of politics. For example, I'm a social libertarian, but quite hard line on foreign policy.

Lastly, I'm sorry, my views have become a 'busted flush' for you....one of my own favourite phrases there. You will just have to turn to some better ideological bedfellows on EU matters I suppose.

No doubt we shall from time to time we shall agree on matters.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.56am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 05 Oct 17 10.48am
Originally posted by hedgehog50 There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them. [Orwell] Edited by hedgehog50 (05 Oct 2017 9.55am) The spy ring traitors to the Soviet's communism were all highly educated. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.49am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

05 Oct 17 10.48am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

There are some ideas so wrong that only a very intelligent person could believe in them. [Orwell]

Edited by hedgehog50 (05 Oct 2017 9.55am)

The spy ring traitors to the Soviet's communism were all highly educated.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.49am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Oct 17 10.54am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The spy ring traitors to the Soviet's communism were all highly educated. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.49am) Indeed - and degenerate. Another good example of how some 'highly intelligent' people operate is to listen to them talking about entries for the Turner Prize, long passages of ramblings which are almost completely lacking in meaning. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Oct 17 10.54am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The spy ring traitors to the Soviet's communism were all highly educated.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Oct 2017 10.49am)

Indeed - and degenerate. Another good example of how some 'highly intelligent' people operate is to listen to them talking about entries for the Turner Prize, long passages of ramblings which are almost completely lacking in meaning.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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europalace Europe 05 Oct 17 11.15am
Originally posted by leifandersonshair Ah of course, us silly naive youngsters with our pesky degrees, voting against the wise and definitely not foolishly nostalgic elders. How dare we! Is it not possible that the young are fully aware of the EU, and what it stands for- but rather than being afraid, and wanting to go hide under a rock, muttering about WW2, would like to be part of something larger? Something better than an insignificant island nation, largely irrelevant on the world stage? Out of genuine interest- British forces have served as part of UN peacekeeping forces. Do you object to this in the same way you do to an 'EU army'? A very astute comment and totally in agreement. It is in fact the older generations that know little or nothing about the EU. They never embraced it or took advantage of the opportunities that it offered with regards to alternative (and often much better quality) lifestyles, education or in business. That's the reason the same generation mostly voted to leave. During their time there was war in Europe. During the EU's tome no war within the bloc. I could go on further but I'll save that for later. Edited by europalace (05 Oct 2017 11.16am)
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europalace

Europe 05 Oct 17 11.15am

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Ah of course, us silly naive youngsters with our pesky degrees, voting against the wise and definitely not foolishly nostalgic elders. How dare we!

Out of genuine interest- British forces have served as part of UN peacekeeping forces. Do you object to this in the same way you do to an 'EU army'?

A very astute comment and totally in agreement. It is in fact the older generations that know little or nothing about the EU. They never embraced it or took advantage of the opportunities that it offered with regards to alternative (and often much better quality) lifestyles, education or in business. That's the reason the same generation mostly voted to leave. During their time there was war in Europe. During the EU's tome no war within the bloc. I could go on further but I'll save that for later.

Edited by europalace (05 Oct 2017 11.16am)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Oct 17 11.19am
Originally posted by europalace A very astute comment and totally in agreement. It is in fact the older generations that know little or nothing about the EU. They never embraced it or took advantage of the opportunities that it offered with regards to alternative (and often much better quality) lifestyles, education or in business. That's the reason the same generation mostly voted to leave. During their time there was war in Europe. During the EU's tome no war within the bloc. I could go on further but I'll save that for later. Edited by europalace (05 Oct 2017 11.16am) You don't say. No bubonic plague either - thank God for the EU. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Oct 17 11.19am

Originally posted by europalace

A very astute comment and totally in agreement. It is in fact the older generations that know little or nothing about the EU. They never embraced it or took advantage of the opportunities that it offered with regards to alternative (and often much better quality) lifestyles, education or in business. That's the reason the same generation mostly voted to leave. During their time there was war in Europe. During the EU's tome no war within the bloc. I could go on further but I'll save that for later.

Edited by europalace (05 Oct 2017 11.16am)

You don't say. No bubonic plague either - thank God for the EU.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Oct 17 11.27am
Originally posted by leifandersonshair Ah of course, us silly naive youngsters with our pesky degrees, voting against the wise and definitely not foolishly nostalgic elders. How dare we! Is it not possible that the young are fully aware of the EU, and what it stands for- but rather than being afraid, and wanting to go hide under a rock, muttering about WW2, would like to be part of something larger? Something better than an insignificant island nation, largely irrelevant on the world stage? Out of genuine interest- British forces have served as part of UN peacekeeping forces. Do you object to this in the same way you do to an 'EU army'? Ha ha. Half the young population has them these days. It's not realy hugely impressive anymore. My daughter has one in Psychology but she know that no one raises an eyebrow until you have a Masters and don't get at all excited until you have a Phd. Don't mistake clever for wise.
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Oct 17 11.27am

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Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Ah of course, us silly naive youngsters with our pesky degrees, voting against the wise and definitely not foolishly nostalgic elders. How dare we!

Out of genuine interest- British forces have served as part of UN peacekeeping forces. Do you object to this in the same way you do to an 'EU army'?

Ha ha. Half the young population has them these days. It's not realy hugely impressive anymore.
My daughter has one in Psychology but she know that no one raises an eyebrow until you have a Masters and don't get at all excited until you have a Phd.

Don't mistake clever for wise.

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Oct 17 11.31am
Originally posted by europalace A very astute comment and totally in agreement. It is in fact the older generations that know little or nothing about the EU. They never embraced it or took advantage of the opportunities that it offered with regards to alternative (and often much better quality) lifestyles, education or in business. That's the reason the same generation mostly voted to leave. During their time there was war in Europe. During the EU's tome no war within the bloc. I could go on further but I'll save that for later. Edited by europalace (05 Oct 2017 11.16am) Not that old crap again. The bomb had nothing to do with it I suppose. The United Nations and NATO would do just fine without the EU I'm sure.
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Oct 17 11.31am

Originally posted by europalace

Edited by europalace (05 Oct 2017 11.16am)

Not that old crap again.

The bomb had nothing to do with it I suppose. The United Nations and NATO would do just fine without the EU I'm sure.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 05 Oct 17 11.45am
I got a 1st from a top uni and am pro-Brexit. Where does that leave me? If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 05 Oct 17 11.45am

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I got a 1st from a top uni and am pro-Brexit. Where does that leave me?

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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